If Muhammad Ali was a trainer, he would be the Greatest!

He invented the rope-a-dope.

 

If my trainer's game plan was "let Foreman hit you until he gets tired", I'm getting a new trainer.

 

Most great fighters don't become great trainers.

They have a tough time being patient and understanding why fighters can't pick up things as fast as they did.

No he didn't.

In fact, right after Zaire, The Ring published an article detailing numerous fighters throughout history who used similar tactics and were very effective fighting while being on the ropes.

 

Not necessarily, C. Let me give you an example:

Willie Pep was a gin mill comic 24-seven…and squeezed in time to box.

Laughs, ladies, and gambling floated his boat. It was all a party -- had us in stitches at Stillman’s gym -- made us feel he was just one of the boys. With his Graziano-slouch and pork pie hat, Willie was better able to carry that off goofin' on a street corner, never in the ring.

At the gym, it was non-stop gags, practical jokes, and a florid Lou Stillman. Pep could skate with those antics because he was a dream in the ring. It was a religious experience watching him.

But he took nothing serious. NOTHING -- never learned anything; it was all God given.

That 's the Pep I'd always seen at the height of his career.

After he quit, briefly, he tried being a trainer.

I was in the 5th St. Gym in Miami and Pep was in the corner of a big, beefy heavyweight.

He was screaming at him from the ring apron -- getting redder and redder in the face. This wasn't stand-up comic Willie; it was Vince Lombardi-Bobby Knight.

When the round ended, Pep went berserk, attacked his fighter -- screaming at him, punching him, whipping him with his pork pie hat, and kicking him in the shins. Three burly corner men had to drag him off.

Pep couldn't get it in his head that what he did, as natural as breathing, nobody else could.

 

promoter is the right word i think....

 

lol u imagine Ali as a promoter? besides his abilities, Ali's mouth was the 2nd greatest thing for him...he could talk some ****, especially about Joe Frazier .

 

I agree. the great fighters would get frustrated that their pupils could not do what they could do. Example. Leonard and Andrew Maynard. Not that Maynard was his pupil, but he was sort of Maynard's idol.

 

Not only would Ali have been not one of the greatest trainers...he would have been one of the worst.

Take off the rose coloured specs for a second. I'm going to let you in on a little secret... Ali could not box! I know it's blasphemy after all, Ali is second only to Bruce Lee what with their ability to teleport and fly and throw lighting bolts at their opponents and stuff...

But, seriously. Ali was a great fighter because he was really fast (and determined), not because he had any great insight about boxing. Ali did things so wrong that if a slower fighter tried to replicate it, he'd be knocked flat out.

You want a guy who knows the ins and outs of the game to be a trainer, a guy like Hopkins would be the best teacher, because he knows all the aspects of the game, and can teach someone who may not be the fastest or strongest on how ti win by using boxing technique rather than pure athletisism.

 

His tactics against Foreman were horrible. Okay he won the fight, but he took a lot of punishment, he had a combination of heart, chin and the ability to sustain body shots better than probably any heavyweight ever, that allowed him to do that - just. But it was a horrible tactic to employ and he's paying the consequences now.

I disagree, I don't think he would be a good trainer. Rarely do good fighters ever make good trainers. As people have mentioned, his athleticism and speed was a bit part of his game and some, or rather most guys - particularly if we are talking HW's - don't have that. I think he'd become frustrated with fighters often, he just had attributes that you can't teach, and if those fighters he's training don't have them, I don't know how adaptable he'd be as a trainer working around what he's got.

 

just because you're a great player doesn't automatically make you a great coach...you also need a talent/knack at training/coaching others

its like saying Michael Jordan would be a great coach...

i agree...great players RARELY become good trainers let alone become a great trainer

 

Roland La Starza and Archie Moore are two that I know of who used this tactic before The Greatest. I reckon Moore was the first to give it the name.

As far as being the greatest trainer, you can give him some credit for the careers of Ellis and Holmes, but I can't see it. He was too easily led by the Nation of Islam to be his own man in the corner, and would probably have judged his fighters by his own unattainable standards.

 

Ali's gameplan was in Zaire was the best plan for him to win. The game plan wasn't bad. Foreman's ring-cutting skills were too good, and Ali's legs weren't the same at that stage anyway. Either way, Ali was going to take his share of punishment, but this way, his chances of winning increased.

He took his share of shots, but did a good job of countering, and avoiding a lot of head shots. He took a hammering to the body, his ability is perhaps 2nd to none in terms of taking body blows, but I thought he was winning regardless going into the 8th. I never understood the way documentaries and revisionist history would say "Ali was taking such a terrible beating and losing, and then Foreman tired". Ali outfought Foreman for most of the fight. He was landing good clean punches throughout the fight. He'd go on the ropes and catch him right up the middle time and time again.

 

Look at all the great boxing trainers. How many of them were great fighters?

The list is very low.

Now look at the great boxers who became trainers. How many of them were real good trainers?

 

He was to arrogant to become good trainer.