If Muhammed Ali was never banned from boxing how would his career pan out?

Disagree with (almost) everything said.
Post-Foley (Mar 67)?
Probably stops Bonavena in the summer of 67.
An easy Spencer KO in late 67?
Ellis-Quarry dead meat by mid-68?
A walk in Luna Park with Peralta fall 68? Buster Mathias?
Another Patterson victory in there somewhere?
Frazier early 69? (a tough fight but Ali prevails putting Joe in
roughly the same shape he was after the TFOTC)
Leotis Martin, Mac Foster? (who's left at this point?) KO?
To close up, A Frazier rematch, same result, tough fight.
Rematching some of the earlier guys he'd beat?
Still undefeated at this point.
Am I missing anyone?
Without the exile he may well have never faced Norton, who he would have beaten at that time anyway.
Given all these hypothetical protracted wars he had to go thru (which we didn't see) his final Waterloo loss may well have been against Foreman in late-72, early 73. He may have tried to come back but that would have been it IMO (would have beaten Foreman in his prime IMO).
IMO that, in itself, would have been enough to put him as the #1 ATG Heavy.

 

Actually, Ali and Frazier were supposed to meet in 1967, not 1969. Frazier was Ali's top contender when Ali was stripped. The Zora Folley fight was in March 1967. Frazier also beat Chuvalo in July that year. So there was time for them to fight that year.

If Ali and Frazier fought in late 1967 or early 68, Ali beats him easy. Ali was approaching his peak, Frazier wasn't quite there yet.

Ali outpoints Frazier by a wide unanimous decision.

If there was no heavyweight elimination tournament, Ellis probably would've remained in the background in 1968. So Ali likely would've defended against Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena in 1968. They were highly regarded that year. He also may have rematched with Karl Mildenberger, who was rated #2 behind Frazier in 1967. Karl wouldn't have lost in the heavyweight tournament (because it didn't take place), so he'd be a viable candidate.

Ali beats Quarry, Bonavena and Mildenberger by stoppage.

Patterson and Liston were on winning streaks. Maybe Ali would've rematched with Floyd and had a third fight with Liston in late 1968 or early 1969, although fighting Liston again probably wouldn't have happened in the U.S. Maybe in Europe.

Regardless, he beats both Patterson and Liston by stoppage.

If Frazier gave Ali a good fight in their meeting, maybe they would've fought again in 1969 - after Frazier got some more experience. He was better than the other contenders. Frazier would’ve performed better than the first fight, and made the fight close, but Ali probably wins the closest decision of his career.

Leotis Martin, who was the second best heavyweight in Philadelphia after Frazier, may have also gotten a title shot - even if he never fought Ellis or Liston.

Ali edges Frazier (in fight two) and stops Martin.

With Foreman winning the gold medal in 1968 and turning pro in 1969, Ali would've been looking for a fight with a "green" George Foreman as soon as possible. 1970 would've been too early, though.

In late 1969 or early 1970, Ali may have headed back to Europe and given Jack Bodell a title shot. Joe Bugner might have gotten a shot in 1970, too. He was a hot prospect at the time. Cooper would’ve been off the table.

Ali stops Bodell and decisions Bugner.

If Buster Mathis never fought Frazier for the vacant title, he'd probably be highly regarded by now. Mac Foster was also the big slugger at the moment.

An active Ali beats both Mathis and Mac Foster much easier than he did (after the long layoff).

By 1971, Ali’s cleaned out the division. Maybe he's beating Bob Foster while clamoring to make a defense against Foreman. Maybe he gives the long-suffering Jimmy Ellis his shot after Ellis outpointed Chuvalo in May 1971.

Neither Bob Foster nor Ellis make it to the 15th round.

Ali would then have 22 or 23 successful title defenses (Liston 2, Patterson, Chuvalo, Cooper 2, London, Mildenberger 1, Williams, Terrell, Folley, Frazier 1, Quarry, Bonavena, Mildenberger 2, Patterson 2, Liston 3, Frazier 2, Martin, Bodell, Bugner, Mathis, M. Foster, B. Foster, and Ellis). He’d be closing in on Joe Louis’ record of 25 successful title defenses.

In early 1972, Ali and George Foreman probably fight in the biggest boxing event ever staged at the Houston Astrodome.

More than 70,000 fans pack the arena.

Foreman, the Olympic hero from Texas who loves his country, against the unbeaten, all-time great champ and Black Muslim who thinks white men are the devil and wants blacks to have their own country.

Joe Louis and Archie Moore would be in Foreman’s corner. Moore as a trainer, Louis as his inspiration.

It would take place at the height of the war in Vietnam. Nixon was trying to get re-elected against McGovern. Bryant Gumbel would write an article calling George Foreman an “Uncle Tom” for being a puppet of the white establishment.

Joe Frazier would be sitting at ringside, claiming he deserved the decision against Ali in their second fight and that Foreman hadn’t fought anybody.

Regardless, Foreman and Ali fight. Ali stays in the center of the ring like he does for every fight and dances against the clumsy, green Foreman. Ali beats him at will for five rounds. Foreman is just too slow. By the start of the sixth, George is swollen, bleeding and out of breath. Ali moves in for the kill, and Foreman rocks Ali and then flattens him with a series of clubbing shots.

Ali rises on shaky legs, but Foreman drops him again. The referee immediately waves it off without a count, and Ali climbs shakily to his feet well before the ten count would’ve ended claiming he was fine.

Joe Louis and Foreman celebrate in center ring, while 70,000 fans in attendance rejoice watching Ali and his camp go crazy.

Foreman upsets Ali - stopping him in the sixth.

During postfight interviews, Ali insists he won every round before the knockdowns and claims the racist Southern whites had conspired to end his reign the moment he was hurt.

Foreman, battered but the hero of a nation, says he’ll wait to decide if he’ll give Ali a rematch or defend against Joe Frazier, who, he says, he thought deserved the decision against Ali in their last meeting.

I’m pretty sure that’s how it would’ve gone. (LOL)

 

Here's my take:

An Ali who was not in exile means an Ali who submitted to the draft and went into the Army. The Army had promised him all the opportunities he wanted to defend his title.

Within a week of his induction, Ali is placed in the stockade for running his mouth to a senior officer.
Within a month his fellow GIs give him a blanket party and beat the hell out of him with broomsticks- again because of his arrogant mouth.
Within six months, Ali is given a Dishonorable Discharge for repeated insubordination.

Due to the nature of his discharge, Ali's license to box is rescinded by 46 states and 12 foreign countries.

He leaves boxing and spends the rest of his days as a bellhop in a 1 star Louisville hotel.

 

Or that. I can see either. :thumbsup

 

Interesting point of view and you are entitled to it. But I disagree. I think if Ali hadn't have had the enforced break we would have seen easily the greatest heavyweight that walked the planet during those layoff years, and he'd have beaten Frazier if they'd met.

 

Frazier beats Ali, layoff or not. Norton give Ali hell, lay off or not. Ali grows old much faster & gets fatter, and his legs give way earlier without the 4 year layoff.

 

Muhammad Ali was at his pinnacle against Williams, Terrell and Folley and seemed to be improving. He looked amazing.

But sooner or later, going at that schedule with such ease, he probably would have slacked off. Maybe later in 1967, maybe in 1968, maybe in 1969.
It's almost unheard of that a champion will keep 100% focused when fights are getting so easy, and fighting so often.
Fame, fortune, the P*USSY, would have distracted him sooner or later, just as what happened in the 70s.

 

Ali haters are out in force on this thread I see. After only a few fights Ali's reputation preceded him, and plenty of guys entered the ring having promised to shut his big brash mouth, and wipe the smirk off his face.

NONE came too close ( unless you fall for the extended break between rounds nonsense in the Cooper fight ) and nothing suggests to me that anyone he subsequently fought after the enforced lay off would have done so if they were all moved up 3 years.

 

Very interesting. I loved this :good

I can't see George stopping Muhammad after being battered himself,though.

 

I think had Muhammad Ali continued boxing would have seen his TRUE prime years between 1967-1970. With both Ali and Frazier burning that candle at both ends by eating up the division's contenders, they likely would have met around late 1968 to early 1969. At this point Muhammad would be at his pinnacle while Joe might have still been developing. Ali wins by late TKO. As for how much longer Ali would have remained unbeaten? That depends largely on how focused he remained. Norton would have always been a tough fight, especially if they still met as regularly scheduled in 1973 for the first time.

 

Foreman would have beat him

He wouldn't have any reason to respect Foreman's power since all Foreman would have accomplished at this time is beating 2 people with ease that he already beat.

Foreman would have caught him clean while he was dancing, and a few body shots later, he'd have ended Ali.

Ali might get him in a rematch

 

A lot of people don't remember that Ali came back from the exile learning how to take that kind of damage

Also, I think his style would cause him to have trouble with Norton. Norton just had the stylistic advantage and was just good enough to exploit it.

 

All you need to do is watch the first round of their actual fight, and see the amount of right hand leads Ali hit the big stupid lummox with. All he was doing was showing Foreman a fraction of the speed, and mobility he possessed 7 years earlier.

Then he mugged him.

 

Well, I'm certainly not an Ali hater since I would place him #1 ATG heavy all things considered.
And I'm not in love with my posts even tho I'm quoting myself here.
I would just have to say my scenerio trumps virtually any of the others I've seen in this thread...with no comments? Maybe everyone's grown tired of my criticism of trying to match fighters from different eras?
I think Ali-Frazier (without the exile) would have waited for awhile. Without that tournament, there were plenty of contenders to hone themselves on before meeting so IMO it would have been late-68 early-69 at the earliest.
Just waiting for my wife to get home.