If Patterson had faced Zora Folley in 1959?

So which is it chokelab....did your boy toy Brian London earn a title shot with Floyd with a “high ranking” or was he just a low rated “tune up” for Johansson?

Which is it?

London beat a washed up Folley in 1968, congrats on a meaningless win

Patterson beat a Machen in 1964 who was coming off a release from being in a mental institution for almost a year..


Machen London fought in 1961 both in their primes. Here’s what happened

Machen dominated the bout as London was little more than a punching bag for the American. London retired in his corner after 5th round, complaining that his nose felt like it was broken.

Source: Associated Press, October 18, 1963

Post fight comments

• "I want to meet Henry Cooper next. We're both rated high and the winner would be the logical man to fight Floyd Patterson for the title." -Eddie Machen

• "The prospect of a fight with Machen gives me no joy at all." -Jim Wicks, Henry Cooper's manager.

 

Chokelab is insisted London wasn’t a filler, but a high ranking contender....which is it?

Why couldn’t Machen or Folley have been given London’s date? Both were bypassed the year before for a lower rated Harris.

 

It’s both. When Machen and Folley slid out of contention after losing their 1958 ranking to Europeans, In light of his top wins of 1958, the rather dashing Brian London qualified as both high ranking and a tune up for the showdown with #1 contender ingemar Johansson.

 

Why do you ask me about what Choklab has said?

I have never called London anything other than a filler. A decent one, though, since he was ranked. And I always give a champion a pass for facing how many fillers he wants as long as he faces the nr 1 contender every year. And Ingo did that. Incidentally, the man who had crushed the fighter you accuse Floyd of ducking.

 

Machen had been smashed to smithereens by Johansson in the Autumn of 1958. Between that disaster and Floyd defending the title in May 1959 Machens stock had nose dived.

“Eddie Machen looked like anything but a ranking heavyweight contender Tuesday night in stopping Clarence Williams of Hollywood in the 9th round of a scheduled 10 at Sacramento. A standing room only crowd of 5,100 booed lustily in Memorial Auditorium throughout the dull contest and when referee Frankie Carter stopped the fight at 1:42, Williams' nose was cut and he was bleeding from the mouth." -Associated Press”

As for Zora Folley, he lost to Henry Cooper and whilst he regrouped with wins afterward I am not sure he was wowing the fans.

“Zora Folley survived a trip to the canvas Tuesday night and went on to win a majority 10 round decision over rugged Howard King. The victory did little to enhance Folley's bid for a title bout with heavyweight champion Ingemar Johansson”

 

Here is RING Magazine February 1959

Champion Floyd Patterson

1. Ingemar Johansson
2. Nino Valdes
3. Zora Folley
4. Henry Cooper
5. Willie Pastrano
6. Archie Moore
7. Eddie Machen
8. Brian London
9. Sonny Liston
10. Mike Dejohn


Folley was above London according to RING and NBA

Here are the NBA rankings February 1959

Champion Floyd Patterson

1. Ingemar Johansson
2. Nino Valdes
3. Henry Cooper
4. Zora Folley
5. Willie Pastrano
6. Eddie Machen
7. Brian London


Here are July 1 1959 NBA rankings


Champion: Ingemar Johansson

1. Floyd Patterson
2. Henry Cooper
3. Zora Folley
4. Sonny Liston
5. Roy Harris
6. Eddie Machen
7. Alonzo Johnson
8. Charlie Powell
9. Brian London
10. Joe Erskine

 

But Floyd didn’t face the number 1 contender in 1958...and then fought his next fight against a filler

 

I'll sign off with this:

Floyd faced his top challenger in 1957, 1959 and 1962. So nothing to hold against him for those years.

In 1961 he honored his rematch clause. Just like Walcott, Marciano, Ingo, Liston and Ali did. 18 months was a bit too long for his next serious defence, I'd say. Otherwise no problem.

In 1958 he faced the nr 3 contender instead of one of the two top contenders - Folley and Machen. Machen was the nr 2 contender, but arguably the most deserving, so Floyd probably should have faced him. He did face the guy who obliterated him, though.

If you think those counts against Floyd is a big deal, alright. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. But be prepared to be held to this standard for other champions as well.

 

So why didn’t the higher rated Folley and Machen get the tuneups? Or Nino Valdes who was higher rated than London?

 

You’re spot on...and Floyd got mangled when he took on his first serious defense in 59 against Johannson which shows you how vulnerable he was as a champion to high level punchers.

Machen Folley and Williams in 1961 would have provided Floyd with serious threats in my opinion stylistically

 

I’ve just told you.

All along you keep overlooking the sensation of three Europeans beating the top three (all American) rated heavyweights in the autumn of 1958.

The champion was defending his title in May 1959.

Why should he pick Americans?

 

They'd probably all be tricky challengers, yes. And I'd not be that surprised if Floyd lost to one of them. And he could do worse than that. You never know.

 

Wait which European beat Valdes in 58?

 

Which Europeans did Valdes beat in 1958?

 

This is certainly one of SQ’s sweet spots. Many of us can pick up knowledge from him here in my opinion.