If Pavlik beats BHOP impressively

:thumbsup

 

What other belt holders? 168 had to be re-contested after JC abdicated. WTF are you talking about? :?

 

Worked for JC.

 

Objectively, they are close, but Calzaghe has the edge. Erasing that biased hind sight, we'll redo the list like this:

For Joe:
Lacy-Heavily hyped, yes, but an UNDEFEATED WORLD CHAMPION with 17 KO's in 22 fights. A VERY good adversary whose career included wins over Robin Reid, Syd Vanderpool, Scott Pemberton, and Omar Sheika. The brakes only wen't on Jeff Lacy's career after Joe beat him from pillar to post. Kelly Pavlik has yet to look this good against an undefeated world champion. I'll call him a B fighter, though at the time he was far from, but the absolute brilliance of JC's boxing makes it a B+ win.

Bika- I'll give you that. Bika is not a great fighter, but he is hardy, he gave the champ a fight, and lost wide on points in the end. A decent win, not a great one, but Bika hasn't been doing necessarily awful since this defeat. A C+ win.

Manfredo- Outclassed and outboxed a low level adversary for a C grade win. I'll rule out the bad stoppage here to cancel out that not everybody thought Pavlik beat Taylor in the rematch.

Kessler-Beat an A fighter wide on points. Unified the titles at middleweight. Kessler is coming off handing Andrade his ass, and knocking another world champion flat in 3. This is an A+ win if I've ever seen it. The entire boxing world was thrilled for this fight, it was seen as the biggest championship tangle in years, and Calzaghe dominated it.

Hopkins-Another A-grade opponent, coming off defeating the light heavyweight champ and schooling the undersized p4p Wright. Close fight that many felt either fighter won clearly. Takes an A+ win down to an A- win. Credit to JC still must be given for getting the W over a p4p top 5er.

JC grade-B+, C+, C, A+, A-= A solid B+ resume in his last few fights.


Kelly Pavlik:

Zertuche- Unproven brawler, means absolutely little. Got spanked by Rubio after Pavlik. Rubio is a Junior Middleweight. C win.

Miranda-Unproven brawler who had a good credible win over Allan Green(John Duddy went on the beat Howard Eastman, that win barely counts.) Lost to Abraham despite breaking his jaw. That fight had controversy, but he still LOST. Miranda is lesser than Lacy was at the time, being not undefeated, not a world champion, and had lost in his only step upm but Kelly still destroyed a B- fighter for a B win. Good, good win for Pavlik.

Taylor 1-Best win on Kelly's resume. Taylor was a top 10 p4per, and Kelly escaped a torrid 2nd round to slowly, but surely, grind that undefeated world champion down. I think Taylor is an elite opponent, and surely deserving of an A- grade for the win. I'd call it A, as Taylor is close but not quite on Kessler's level, but the minus is for getting dropped and nearly stopped early. A fair penalty on a still great win.

Taylor 2- Taylor is no longer an undefeated world champion, and coming off a loss, so this lowers him to a B grade adversary. It was a close fight, I promised I wouldnt bring in that it wasnt universally clear, so I'll give her a B for the win.

Lockett- **** opponent, dominant win. C win.

Pavliks grades- C, B, A-, B, C= B- resume.

These guys are virtually even. Lets even tag on dominating wins in their next fights.

I'll call Hopkins though, depleted after a loss and getting old, an A- opponent. Pavlik shreds him for an A- win, boosts him solidly to B.

Roy Jones is past it, coming off 3 wins and his legend status barely keeps him to a B opponent. JC remains at his average upon beating the hell out of him.

Btw. I grade resume's like this all the time. Only guys like Muhammad Ali can be given A grade resume's. A B is a stellar resume on my chart. Most world champions in this sport get C's, and thats if they are lucky.

 

no. but beating abraham decicively should do it.

 

As of right now Calzaghe is definitly ahead of Pavlik. A large part of this is based off his win over Hopkins. But the question is assuming Pavlik beats Calzaghe impressivly. When rating pfp a lot depends on how far back you go. If you go back far enough than DLH and Holyfield would still rate pretty high here. I personally would go back about 5-6 fights or so. So here it goes...

If Pavlik beats Hopkins impressivly than he get points because Calzaghe had a lot of trouble with him. But Pavlik is fighting him after Calzaghe beat him so even if its small Hopkins stock had to slip some and throw in the fact Hopkins is getting older that would sway it back Joe's way. But if Pavlik win impressivly, than I'd call their wins over Hopkins close but a small edge to Pavlik.

Calzaghe's second best win would be Kessler and Pavlik's Taylor I. Kessler was a big win for Joe. He had some big wins-Mundine, Andrade, and Beyer and this was a major fight and a major victory. Taylor was the middleweight champ, a pfp guy, and had major fights with Winky and Hopkins which trump Kessler's best. On the other hand Kessler was hot coming in and looking good in his proceeding wins while Taylor was struggling with smaller guys like Spinks and Ouma. I'd call this near even but if forced to pick I'd go with Taylor but no problem with those picking Kessler.

Calzaghe's third best win was Lacy with Pavlik's being Taylor II. Lacy may have been over hyped and overrated but truth is he was a real contender at the time, injuries haven't helped his career since. He was on a streak of nice wins coming into the Calzaghe fight and Calzaghe put a clinic on him. Taylor was coming into the rematch having loss his last fight to Pavlik but redeemed himself by fighting a good fight with Pavlik and it made up for a lot of the criticism he had been recieving. But he was no longer a pfp player or the champ. So, again, a very close call but due to the clinic put on by Joe I'd give him the nod.

Calzaghe's fourth best win was Bika and Pavlik's was Miranda. Bika was/is a solid top 15 guy and might go on to make a nice career as a top 10 guy, but he'll never be elite. Good win for Calzaghe but nothing great. Miranda had been overrated a bit coming into the Pavlik fight but he was a higher rated contender than Bika was and is probably better than him today. That would actually be a great fight. Throw in the manner in which they win than Pavlik gets the nod here.

Calzaghe's fifth best win was Manfredo and Pavlik's was Zertuche. Manfredo is an ok fighter but thats it. The stoppage in this fight was horrible. Zertuche is a tough gatekeeper but loses when stepping up. This might be a closer call than most think but I'd lean toward Zertuche but have no problem with someone picking Manfredo.


So, to me, if Pavlik beats Hopkins impressivly than I would say he could/should be rated above Calzaghe. Most of their opponents are hard to pick from so a strong case could be made for Joe but to me Pavlik would take it.

 

very solid post. Truth is i have Calzaghe at 4 and Pavlik at 5. I think stylewise Hopkins is an easier fight for Pavlik, but at the same time i don't think Hopkins' stock has dipped much since the Calzaghe fight. If Pavlik wins impressivly, and especailly if he wins by knockout, then i think he may just overtake Calzaghe.

 

Please log out and never log in again. atsch

 

Hadn't thought of this. :think Good point. It looks likely, too. I see some fine ol' fights breakin' out on the boards...:!:

 

You at first I was going to say no, but as I thought about it Im going to say yes, I know that many of the European fans will be up at arms with the following...I think in the 20+ fights that Pavlik has had, he is about equal to Joes in terms of level of comp in his 40+ fights..If I was putting it in percentages I would give Joe a 53-47% edge...
Taylor=Kessler
Hopkins=Hopkins
Lacy>Miranda
Taylor>Mitchell

Joe has a few more decent wins but that is because he has 20+ more fights.

 

granted.

but you also have to consider how loose the terms "world champion" and "undefeated" really are in the boxing world.

remembering also that pavlik has already taken more risks in his career than calzaghe ever did.

nonetheless, the lacy and kessler wins were superb. lacy isn't going to reinforce his rep prior to JC though, and kessler is fighting obscure 'euro belt holders' because mogens palle is telling him to....

if kessler continues that way he's going to become felix sturm's love child pretty damn fast, which leaves calzagfhe without a truly meaningful win (in hindsight) while pavlik beat the man who beat the man...

 

When did you start watching Calzaghe ????