If post 1950 heavyweight Champions drew the color line

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Aug 6, 2015.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    can you imagine how shallow there resumes would look like?
     
  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    We wouldn't realize it though. A lower echelon of white fighters would have replaced the black fighters and boxing fans today would still romanticize them anyway.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    How about if we only recognized as champion those who defended against blacks?
    The excludes:
    Sullivan
    Corbett
    Fitzsimmons
    Jeffries
    Hart
    Willard
    Dempsey
    Tunney
    Schmeling
    Sharkey
    Baer
    Braddock
    The first Champion is then Tommy Burns, the second Jack Johnson,the third Joe Louis.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A better comparison with what went before, would be if the black fighters since 1950, had drawn the colour line against white contenders.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson was catering to the sure fire winner supply and demand,ie give the public what they want.They wanted a White champ and they sure as hell would not get it by matching him with another black.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The reality is that at some stages of that dark period, there was not a black fighter who would have made a decent sparring partner for the current champion.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    We generally know how good it was, because there were always some top white contenders, who were willing to fight the top black contenders.

    Between 1880 and 1950, the depth of the pool of black contenders oscillated considerably. You had head to head monsters like Peter Jackson, then a few years later, the best was somebody like Joe Butler.
     
  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    The record would be rewritten .. every champion before Louis should have asterisks next to their name and having fought one or two black fighters excludes no one .. without a level playing field the whole history of the sport is based on illusions ..
     
  9. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Am I right in thinking that Marciano is the only white American heavyweight champion who ever successfully defended the title against a black man? Or am I forgetting someone obvious?
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He is the only one who defended it against two black challengers with the combined age of 76!
     
  11. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Would you also apply that to Jack Johnson and Joe Gans?
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Hollyfeild beat older challengers. Two guys Combined age 85.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    As they are not a total of 76 my point stands, and yours is irrelevant.
     
  14. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    I think Dempsey qualifies as unified champ, since he beat the man who beat the man who unified black and white titles.
     
  15. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am not sure this is correct.

    Sullivan definitely defended against the coloured fighter Herbert Slade. I dont think this is really debateable.

    Also, Jeffries may not have defended against blacks. But he would have won the title when he defeated the coloured champion Peter Jackson.