If Prime Ali Fought Frazier.

I just rewatched Ali vs Chuvalo 1. Though not necessarily greatly similar to what we might see given prime Ali vs prime Joe, is it still perhaps “closest” to what we might see?

I will say Chuvalo’ low blows were consistently OTT - but repeat, Ali did not complain. Ali’s covering up was generally sufficient to protect the legal scoring areas of his body - but Chuvalo often punched well outside of those areas, being his only available target areas on those occasions.

Not to say there wasn’t a number of very good, legal body shots landed by George (no pun intended relating to “By George!”) - there were a good number of legit body shots landed by Chuvalo.

Ali’s superbly conditioned torso must’ve been made of steel. But there was also the incredible amount of hard shots Chuvalo took to the head - insane.

 

Gotta love the poster who said Joe's prime ended when he was 26.

 

In their March 29 1966 title bout, challenger George Chuvalo hit champion Muhammad Ali with many low blows, referee Jackie Silvers appeared to do nothing, allowing them to fight. Ali weighed in at his heaviest, 214 lbs for his 3rd title defense for what should have been a title unification between Ali and WBA champion Ernie Terrell, but negotiations broke down for the fight and there was fear that Terrell's management included such underworld figures like Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo, there could possibly be a mini war between Ali's new management who were rumored to be armed with machine guns. Also Ali's constant verbal barrage at the Draft Board who recently reclassified him as 1-A, making him eligible to be drafted into the U.S Army, the unification was scheduled for March 29 1966 in Chicago, Illinois, but Ali got into a verbal confrontation with the Chairman of the Illinois Boxing Commission on his disfavor of the Vietnam War. The Ali vs Chuvalo bout saw Ali using a bit of the futuristic Rope A Dope, Ali must have known that someday his legs would start to fail him and he also wanted to show the crowd that he could take body blows from someone like Chuvalo, he did even though many were low. But for someone like prime Joe Frazier, Ali in 1967 would have weighed 212 lbs, and stuck and moved for 15 rounds without missing a beat. In 1971 Ali no longer had the stamina or reflexes anymore, he was flatfooted, which made him very vulnerable.

 

Nice rundown Rich. Prime vs prime, Ali’s weight election would be interesting. Would he definitely come in light for consistent mobility or would he want to take in a few lbs extra for some added power. He certainly thumped Chuvalo hard.

During his first reign his lightest was 201 1/2 for the 2nd Cooper fight - is that listing correct? - anyway, he wanted to be very mobile and steer clear of Henry’s left hook.

The next lightest I think was for the second Liston fight - 206 lb - though the fight was brief, we saw incredible mobility (as intended) on Ali’s part.

Interestingly, though lighter than for the first fight in Miami, Ali looked somewhat jacked in the Lewiston fight imo. Of course total weight comes down to composition of fat/muscle.

Perhaps more than most fighters Ali’s weights going into fights are somewhat revealing as to Ali’s intents/strategies.

As to the fights when he came in blubbery, out of shape - his intents were poor, because he obviously didn’t give two F’s and figured he could get by anyway, hahaha.

 

Great point about Ali underestimating Joe prior to the FOTC--this was more of a factor than people realize. I've read (can't recall the exact sources) that Ali more or less trained for a 6 round fight that night-he didn't anticipate Frazier's relentless pressure and stamina over 15 rounds.

Which also accounts for Ali's blistering attack in the first few rounds-he thought he could dispatch Joe early. (Any other fighter that night would have gone down from the barrage Ali gave Joe in those first 5 rounds-but Frazier had a will to win that night that was beyond comprehension!!)

 

Too scrawny to beat Liston too....