If Prime Foreman Faced Every Champ Before Him..?

Prime Foreman was rag dolled by Lyle, knocked out by a past prime Ali, and dropped and out pointed by Jimmy Young. These are the facts, regardless of excuses.

If he matched up against every Champion before him, well, I imagine there would be lots of excuses...because apparently a single minded slugger with questionable conditioning can't just lose because he's a single minded slugger with questionable conditioning. He was also slow.

 

I'd take him to lose to Louis, Liston, and Ali. He'd beat everyone else IMO.

 

Besides Ali, Louis, and Liston I find the idea of Foreman v Charles very interesting.

 

I agree

 

Among less popular choices:

1. Jim Jeffries would have a chance, but I wouldn't favor him. He'd have to take some very hard shots to take George to late rounds and stop him late. I'm not sure if his defense was good enough to do that, though being as big as Foreman would help him - George wouldn't push him back as easily as Frazier.

2. Jack Johnson would have reasonable chances, he's perfect fighter to exploit Foreman's weaknesses. The main problem is that Foreman was bigger than Johnson and likely stronger physically, I'm also not sure if Jack hit hard enough to earn his respect.

3. Baer at his absolute best could make this fight competitive, but I don't think he has strong case here.

4. Smaller and trickier fighters like Charles or Schmeling could make it interesting for a while, but Foreman would be too powerful for them in the end.

I don't see anyone else being a big problem for Foreman. I favor Ali and Louis over him, with Liston being 50-50 fight (I favor Foreman).

Maybe some miracle work by Sam Langford, but I don't think so. Fitzsimmons gameplan would be interesting, but Foreman's jab would be too big obstacle to overcome.

 

Behave. Johnson and Dempsey get absolutely decimated

 

Ali is a favourite, Liston and Louis could go either way. I'd pick him to beat the rest. Some of the slicker guys like Walcott, Charles and Tunney could be competitive but I don't see them winning.

 

You to my friend.

 

Ali obv. I can't help but wonder if greb would be able to stick to a good game plan and decision him. George didnt have a plan b and fleet footed guys with fast hands gave him trouble

 

Completely agree with your assessment.
60s Ali was just too fast for Foreman.
And Liston was just a more polished and better boxer overall, plus he also matched Foreman's punching power.

 

No, you shouldn't have thrown him in. Apart from Liston, none of those you mentioned stand a chance.

There's no way Johnson, Dempsey and Louis stand a chance.

 

Jeff would basically be a longer version of the Chuvalo fight but a bit more competitive. Jeff would be too tough for his own good and after a few exciting rounds with some back and forth heavy action, ends up just taking too much punishment and is stopped within 6. Maybe with the right trainer Jeff can work on his defense and have a game plan to take him into the later rounds and drown him late, but we have to use the actual version.


Dempsey would be interesting because of his hand speed and blitzing offense. I think he was bit faster than Frazier and had a much better right hand and underrated defense. The problem is once he gets in range, can he avoid getting clobbered every single time when he darts in and out? He wouldn't be dealing with a ponderous slow inactive Willard in his late 30's or a wild swinging Firpo. I could envision Dempsey nailing Foreman with some very brutal combinations on the inside if he can get past that heavy jab, but a single mistake or Foreman mauling and shoving him back would be the beginning of the end. I give Dempsey maybe a 30% chance of stopping Foreman possibly due to severe eye swelling from a non stop barrage, maybe even dropping him once, but in all likelihood he gets caught at some point and as tough as Dempsey is, Foreman was a merciless finisher and would stick to him like white on rice and it would be over.


Max Baer would be a wild card and it could end up looking like the sloppiest brawl in heavyweight history. Baer has a major punchers chance in a shootout, especially since he had a solid chin and better stamina, but the most likely scenario is Foreman winning just barely due to superior technique and a wider variety of punches. Baer telegraphed his punches so much and Foreman could actually dodge fast blows from guys like Norton so he probably would parry many of them with his outstretched hands.


Joe Louis would fare better than Dempsey even though he had slower feet and wasn't as durable. The reason being he was great at making adjustments and had a much better jab. He could fight comfortably at mid range snapping his old school jab at Foreman's eye, then once he found his range and rhythm, light him up with those blistering combinations. Still, he'd be playing a dangerous game as Foreman could time him with his own heavy jab even if he doesn't have Louis' handspeed because he has the reach and height. At some point the two of them will get annoyed with each other snapping lefts at each other's eyes and would get closer. Now here, you'd think Foreman would just maul him but actually Louis has a key advantage as he is now within Foreman's long gorilla reach and is a better combination puncher upstairs and downstairs. I think if Foreman gets suckered into a phone booth battle where he can't get the full leverage of his power, his gas tank would rapidly deplete and he'd gas at some point, maybe within 6. I give Louis about 40% chance of pulling this off, but the problem is A) For every 2-3 punches Louis lands, Foreman can do similar damage with just 1, B) Louis working feverishly to land a barrage is going to drain his own stamina and if Foreman goes to the body simultaneously Louis might actually gas himself out first and finally C) Foreman might get annoyed and simply push Louis back or nail him with a kidney shot for getting too close. Louis lack of durability, weakness to right hands, and slow feet make this a very difficult fight. If this is Foreman post Zaire or comeback 90's version, Louis wins easily. Likewise, in a rematch I definitely see a more cautious Louis either taking his time to break Foreman down late or winning a nail biter decision.


Liston is pretty much a 50/50 fight. Both hit like trucks with heavy jabs, granite chins, and had killer instinct. Liston has technique, endurance, George has slight edge in raw power and strength and heart. Really can go either way. If they enter the fight wary of each other like Provodnikov vs Mathyse, Liston likely takes a very close decision. In a slug fest, slight favorite is Foreman.


Of course prime Ali would prevail provided we are using the one with actual championship experience just before the exile. Best version would probably be the one who had humiliated Terrel and went to war with Chuvalo. His footwork, head movement, and mental toughness would be too much and Ali dances his way to a decision or late round stoppage being much more cautious now that he has the reflexes to avoid mixing things up or laying on the ropes.


Other than that, no other HW prior to the 70's has much of a chance with prime Foreman in my opinion.