If Prime Riddick Bowe fought every champions before him ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stiches Yarn, Jun 6, 2021.

  1. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

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    Excellent idea IMO, originally created by @Fergy , when a great heavyweight is matched up with every fighters who held the title before him.

    Today, we will talk about the prime 1992 Riddick Bowe, who at 6′5″ with an 81 inch reach, weighed 235, was an excellent fundamental boxer, with "not so" great defense, but would have been a stern test for any fighter who ever lived.

    So do you think he would have fared well against these guys, do you think he beats them all or lose to most of them?
    Jack Dempsey
    Gene Tunney
    Max Schmeling
    Jack Sharkey
    Primo Carnera
    Max Baer
    James J Braddock
    Joe Louis
    Ezzard Charles
    Jersey Joe Walcott
    Rocky marciano
    Floyd Patterson
    Ingomar Johansson
    Sonny Liston
    Muhammad Ali
    Ernie terrell
    Jimmy Ellis
    Joe Frazier
    George Foreman
    Leon Spinks
    Ken Norton
    Larry Holmes
    John Tate
    Mike Weaver
    Gerrie Coetzee
    Greg Page
    Tim Witherspoon
    James Smith
    Trevor berbick
    Michael Spinks
    Tony Tucker
    Mike Tyson
    Tokyo james Buster Douglas.
    Edit: the Holyfield who won the undisputed title, 1982 Dokes, Prime tubbs and Thomas are now in that list.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He'd be very dangerous for all of them and he'd beat a number of champions, but he'd definitely lose to number of them as well and he's the kind of guy who'd fare terrible with facing consistently great competition. I always view Bowe as someone who could be very dangerous for a 2-3 fights at his peak, but he'd never have a great long career with increased level of average competition.
     
  3. TipNom

    TipNom Active Member Full Member

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    I think he beats everyone except Ali, Foreman, Holmes and maybe Louis. Him vs Tyson is one of my favourite fantasy fights. Hard fight for me to pick but I lean towards Bowe.
     
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  4. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But in these hypothetical matchups we use the best version.
     
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  5. SheenLantern

    SheenLantern Active Member Full Member

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    Loses to Holmes, Louis and Ali 100%

    Probably loses to Liston and Foreman

    Likely beats everyone else
     
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  6. Scott Cork

    Scott Cork Active Member Full Member

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    He loses to anyone with a decent punch
     
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  7. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He beats Louis with ease
     
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  8. SheenLantern

    SheenLantern Active Member Full Member

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    Explain what Holyfield does so much better than Louis that he was able to beat Bowe then.
     
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  9. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

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    Stronger, bigger and could defenitely take a better punch.
     
  10. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sonny Liston
    Muhammad Ali
    George Foreman
    Larry Holmes
    Mike Tyson

    They are the ones that can beat him, but it's not a guarantee. I also give Tokyo james Buster Douglas a decent chance.
     
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  11. White Bomber

    White Bomber Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holyfield moved a lot better, had a stronger chin, was stronger.
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    He has a short, explosive brawl with Jack and wins big IMO. Definitely one to watch, but Bowe's size advantage is too much. Tunney and Schmeling would cause him issues but I think both get worn down and stopped - but Bowe could potentially lose these fights. Neither Sharkey, nor Carnera do anything particularly well or fight in a manner that would lead to beating Bowe. He'd stop both of them. Baer has a good puncher's chance but would be pretty badly battered outside of that - and Braddock has no real chance.

    Louis beats him. He loved big targets who stood right in front of him and there's no better way to describe Bowe than that. Bowe's jab would be problematic, as would his physical strength and inside game, but I think Louis would surprise a lot of people here. He'd have the strength to compete with Bowe and the skills to really hurt Bowe up close as well.

    Charles gives him issues but is ultimately too small to actually win, and Walcott is in a similar boat. Walcott's style is horrible for Bowe, but I think he gets worn down and stopped in a similar fashion to the Marciano fight. Speaking of him, I think he'd lose a short fun war with Bowe. Don't blink!

    Patterson gets annihilated. Ingo may have some with his cross-counter, but ultimately ends up like Patterson. Liston has everything needed to beat Bowe. He has the strength to match him, the skills, defence and jab to out-box him at arm's reach and the power to stop Bowe barging in. Sonny knocks him out IMO.

    Ali is terrible for Bowe, and would win a very clear decision. Terrell and Ellis pose no threat. Frazier and Bowe have a fight of the year and I think Frazier a close, hard fight - but it's pretty much a 50/50. You have a better fighter, and one who's great in his own right, but also bigger, and a bad style for him. Foreman vs Bowe would be another short explosive war, where if it went late, it would favour Bowe - however, I think Foreman would've done too much damage early on and stops him about the forth. Neither would have issues landing, and both had similar levels of chin and hand-speed, but Foreman had much more power. Spinks and Norton both get blown out.

    Holmes is another bad style for Bowe and has more than enough intangibles to tough out any hard moments. I think a lot of the '80s crew could beat or trouble Bowe. The ones who are gonna try and 'out-man' Bowe, don't have much of a prayer - but the out-boxer types? They have a much better shot. Weaver, Coetzee, Smith, Berbick, etc; are gonna have a rough time trying to out-slug Bowe. Page did a good Ali impression, but was like Bowe at heart. I don't think Riddick has much to worry about from Greg - great fight, though. Whereas Tate, Tucker, Tubbs, maybe Thomas and definitely Douglas, would all give Bowe massive issues and I think he'd drop one or two of those. Douglas and Tubbs would be my picks for the upset. Dokes would be a fun fight, but he didn't have the legs to beat Bowe IMO. Spinks is just be too small and fragile, Bowe would just walk through him. Witherspoon's size, and steady, intelligent pressure and the means to both defend and counter Bowe's jab. It'd be a wicked brawl, but I take Bowe here. Just a higher level fighter.

    The Tyson fight is an interesting one. In theory, Tyson is all wrong for Bowe. Bowe's easy to hit, nit particularly fast and doesn't have the one-punch power of someone like Foreman or Liston. Tyson would be able to slip Bowe's jab, get into mid-range and work whatever he pleased, he's be able to lead with the left hook like Holyfield did so much, and his overhand would sail right over Bowe's jab every time Mike threw it. That said, how much of Tyson's style becomes undone if you put him on the back-foot? I'd wager quite a lot. Not to mention how easy it was to find refuge up close vs Mike, and how good Bowe was there. Tyson's constant ducking and weaving, could lead for a very easy uppercut counter - and the fact that Bowe was a stronger guy, means that he could potentially pull of the the upset. Especially if Futch is creating the plan. For the most part though, I tend to take the easy option and think that Bowe's just too hittable and succumbs to a blizzard of bombs that he can't take for long.

    So that puts Bowe at about 23-9ish.
     
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  13. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

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    I think he loses to Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Liston. Louis and Tyson have a good chance of beating him as well, and while I would probably favor him over Frazier, I think Frazier could beat him as well. He should beat everyone else.

    But the keyword there is "should". Truthfully, he'd lose more than we would think, probably to one or two guys he should beat on paper. I've said this on here before, but really I'm not even sure if Bowe ever had a "prime", at least in the way the term is commonly used. He had nights were he looked great, and nights were he looked mediocre. On any given night in his "prime", it's quite possible Bowe shows unprepared and poorly conditioned and gets upset by somebody that he shouldn't have much problems with. Somebody posted in that "Mentally Stable Golota" thread that you can't gift fighters with traits they never had. I think the same applies to Bowe. He was never consistent, and he was never going to be.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Holyfield is marginally bigger and stronger, and his chin isn't better by too much either. Certainly not enough to make up for Louis' massive advantages in defence, power and hand-speed.
     
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  15. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Rocky blows a hole through him with a punch like an armour piercing bullet.
     
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