If Prime Riddick Bowe fought every champions before him ?

Dubblechin · Jun 7, 2021

George Crowcroft said: ↑

He has a short, explosive brawl with Jack and wins big IMO. Definitely one to watch, but Bowe's size advantage is too much. Tunney and Schmeling would cause him issues but I think both get worn down and stopped - but Bowe could potentially lose these fights. Neither Sharkey, nor Carnera do anything particularly well or fight in a manner that would lead to beating Bowe. He'd stop both of them. Baer has a good puncher's chance but would be pretty badly battered outside of that - and Braddock has no real chance.

Louis beats him. He loved big targets who stood right in front of him and there's no better way to describe Bowe than that. Bowe's jab would be problematic, as would his physical strength and inside game, but I think Louis would surprise a lot of people here. He'd have the strength to compete with Bowe and the skills to really hurt Bowe up close as well.

Charles gives him issues but is ultimately too small to actually win, and Walcott is in a similar boat. Walcott's style is horrible for Bowe, but I think he gets worn down and stopped in a similar fashion to the Marciano fight. Speaking of him, I think he'd lose a short fun war with Bowe. Don't blink!

Patterson gets annihilated. Ingo may have some with his cross-counter, but ultimately ends up like Patterson. Liston has everything needed to beat Bowe. He has the strength to match him, the skills, defence and jab to out-box him at arm's reach and the power to stop Bowe barging in. Sonny knocks him out IMO.

Ali is terrible for Bowe, and would win a very clear decision. Terrell and Ellis pose no threat. Frazier and Bowe have a fight of the year and I think Frazier a close, hard fight - but it's pretty much a 50/50. You have a better fighter, and one who's great in his own right, but also bigger, and a bad style for him. Foreman vs Bowe would be another short explosive war, where if it went late, it would favour Bowe - however, I think Foreman would've done too much damage early on and stops him about the forth. Neither would have issues landing, and both had similar levels of chin and hand-speed, but Foreman had much more power. Spinks and Norton both get blown out.

Holmes is another bad style for Bowe and has more than enough intangibles to tough out any hard moments. I think a lot of the '80s crew could beat or trouble Bowe. The ones who are gonna try and 'out-man' Bowe, don't have much of a prayer - but the out-boxer types? They have a much better shot. Weaver, Coetzee, Smith, Berbick, etc; are gonna have a rough time trying to out-slug Bowe. Page did a good Ali impression, but was like Bowe at heart. I don't think Riddick has much to worry about from Greg - great fight, though. Whereas Tate, Tucker, Tubbs, maybe Thomas and definitely Douglas, would all give Bowe massive issues and I think he'd drop one or two of those. Douglas and Tubbs would be my picks for the upset. Dokes would be a fun fight, but he didn't have the legs to beat Bowe IMO. Spinks is just be too small and fragile, Bowe would just walk through him. Witherspoon's size, and steady, intelligent pressure and the means to both defend and counter Bowe's jab. It'd be a wicked brawl, but I take Bowe here. Just a higher level fighter.

The Tyson fight is an interesting one. In theory, Tyson is all wrong for Bowe. Bowe's easy to hit, nit particularly fast and doesn't have the one-punch power of someone like Foreman or Liston. Tyson would be able to slip Bowe's jab, get into mid-range and work whatever he pleased, he's be able to lead with the left hook like Holyfield did so much, and his overhand would sail right over Bowe's jab every time Mike threw it. That said, how much of Tyson's style becomes undone if you put him on the back-foot? I'd wager quite a lot. Not to mention how easy it was to find refuge up close vs Mike, and how good Bowe was there. Tyson's constant ducking and weaving, could lead for a very easy uppercut counter - and the fact that Bowe was a stronger guy, means that he could potentially pull of the the upset. Especially if Futch is creating the plan. For the most part though, I tend to take the easy option and think that Bowe's just too hittable and succumbs to a blizzard of bombs that he can't take for long.

So that puts Bowe at about 23-9ish.
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Agree with much of this. Although, I think Dempsey who fought Firpo would batter Bowe on the inside. Bowe had a great jab, but he wasn't a mover, didn't maintain his distance and allowed guys to fight on the inside against him. Dempsey would punish him for that, moreso than Golota did.

Stiches Yarn · Jun 7, 2021

Dubblechin said: ↑

You are missing the point entirely.

Michael Dokes against Bowe wasn't the Dokes who went 15 rounds with Weaver 10 years earlier.

Whether "you" think he beats Bowe or not is irrelevent, since you posed the question to everyone else. You asked how we thought Bowe (the night he won the title) would do against all the former champs ...

I matched Bowe against all the former champs when the former champs won their belts, too. Dokes of 82/83 wasn't remotely the bloated, alchohol-soaked guy who was filmed getting drunk at a basketball game a couple nights before the Bowe fight in 1993.

Using Dokes in 1993 as an example is like using Bowe in 2004 against Marcus Rhode - 10 years after Riddick was champ - as an example of Bowe at his best.

And Holyfield clearly looked better when he won the title than he performed against Holmes or Bowe in defenses. Guys are allowed to have off nights.

Bowe fans tend to base ALL of Bowe's head-to-head matchups solely on the night he won the title against Holyfield, because Bowe had so many off nights and bad performances himself.

I doubt the Bowe who "beat/fouled" Coetzer or "controversally decisioned" Tubbs could beat the Holyfield who stopped Douglas. And Pierre Coetzer wasn't nearly as good as Gerrie Coetzee. And Tubbs in 92 wasn't Tubbs seven years earlier when he won his title.

In many ways, Bowe was just as much of a one-night wonder as Douglas against Tyson.

You seem to want to stack the deck heavily in Bowe's favor by just assuming guys like Dokes, Tubbs, Thomas or Holyfield would never do better against Bowe at any points in their careers.

Thomas looked pretty excellent the night he beat Witherspoon for the title, too. That was probably the high point of his whole career. Pinklon wasn't nearly the same fighter six years later when Bowe fought him. Just like Bowe wasn't nearly the same fighter he was six years after he beat Thomas when Bowe was getting bounced off the floor repeatedly against Golota in their rematch.
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Ok, why not.
Prime.Thomas,Prime Tubbs, Prime Dokes and the Holyfield of the Douglas fight are now included ladies and gentlemens.

BlackCloud · Jun 7, 2021

Something about he couldn't exist as he did in those days.
Something about the Army height to weight ratio.
Something called the Spinks Experiment.
Something about Williams, Liston & Foreman.
Something about Ingemar Johansson.

swagdelfadeel · Jun 7, 2021

Stiches Yarn said: ↑

Excellent idea IMO, originally created by @Fergy , when a great heavyweight is matched up with every fighters who held the title before him.

Today, we will talk about the prime 1992 Riddick Bowe, who at 6′5″ with an 81 inch reach, weighed 235, was an excellent fundamental boxer, with "not so" great defense, but would have been a stern test for any fighter who ever lived.

So do you think he would have fared well against these guys, do you think he beats them all or lose to most of them?
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Max Schmeling
Jack Sharkey
Primo Carnera
Max Baer
James J Braddock
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingomar Johansson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Ernie terrell
Jimmy Ellis
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Leon Spinks
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes
John Tate
Mike Weaver
Gerrie Coetzee
Greg Page
Tim Witherspoon
James Smith
Trevor berbick
Michael Spinks
Tony Tucker
Mike Tyson
Tokyo james Buster Douglas.
Edit: the Holyfield who won the undisputed title, 1982 Dokes, Prime tubbs and Thomas are now in that list.
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Loses to the bolded imo.

Stiches Yarn · Jun 7, 2021

swagdelfadeel said: ↑

Loses to the bolded imo.
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Short, pithy, and correct answer, exactly what i thought.
Only I think he is 50/50 with tyson and foreman.

Reinhardt · Jun 7, 2021

70sFan865 said: ↑

That's good, because Louis weighed over 200 lbs consistently. Bowe went life and death with 205 lbs Holyfield.
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oops! you have exposed the flaw in his argument concerning Louis,,,and brutally so.

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If Prime Riddick Bowe fought every champions before him ?

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