If Rocky Marciano had came along a bit later....

he'd beat Petterson and maybe young Clay but lose to Liston

 

Liston would win, close but clear ud

 

He would 100 % beat Patterson. Liston, a fighter, who looked at his best against old and washed up ex-contenders or mediocre fighters, is IMO very overrated. His jab was very hard, but also pretty slow. Marciano´s underrated head-movement would avoid most of Sonny´s jab, and I think he would stop Liston in the midrounds. The young Clay didn´t have the pysical force the Ali had later in his career, and he fooled to much around in the ring at this time. I think Marciano would beat him,too. The 70s-Ali would be a much more challenge here...

 

He would probably beat Patterson.

With the other two it depends which version he gets.

 

Foli and Machen were not washed up, nor was Williams...I've not gone back and checked out Broadhearst being a name that pops up.......
The question on Liston is where would he have been had he not taken a Jail break in his carreer?

I can't get over how slow Liston became somehow.....of course I did watch him on Black and White TV.
Vs a for the time Tall and second or first fastest Heavy of his time...Patterson being the other...Liston was slow....so slow that a race running Clay wanted to quit in his corner....so slow....

Patterson had no chance....that's why they said Patterson needed another two years to be ready for the Rock....suddenly when he retired Patterson was ready.
We have to time travel a bit....because Rock would have been rather old had he waited for Clay.
Clay would not have been able to save himslf with a cut glove vs Rock.

Liston would have been the best fight....and Liston had a good chance to win....great jab...two of them, a fast one that no one talks about, and that power pole. Good right hand, skill, and reach....and a chin.....
Rock out of the crouch takes away some of Liston's advantages....two of them at ring center.....
dither, dither dither... Rock wins by KO in the 14th. Liston having never gone 15 gets a tad tired from carrying more weight.

 

Patterson is never going to beat Marciano.


I think Marciano can take '64 or later Liston.
The 59-63 version i would favor against Marciano because of styles. Although Marciano has a live chance: he showed an excellent chin, Liston was not THAT agressive (like a Foreman) and he rarely scored a KO past the 7th round, when Marciano would pour it on. He also never went 15 and was very frustrated against Machen.


I think he'd beat Clay before 64, but after that probably lose 2 out of 3.

Interestingly, he could theoretically beat Clay in '63, then Patterson and then Liston in '64/'65. But the other way around, Liston early and Clay late, would be give quite different results.

 

He beats all three. Liston was not that hard to hit, and was slow. Marciano had better defense than Liston, and hit harder, took better punch. Patterson was just not that good. He would get to Clay. Liston had him on ropes several times in first fight, even Chuvalo had him there. Marciano would not allow him to get off. I think Ali in 1970's would have better fight against Marciano than when he was younger.

 

At his best he stops Floyd get s decisioned by Clay ,and beaten by tko via cut eyes courtesy of Listons pole like jab

 

I think we've been watching different fights. Liston never had him well on the ropes, maybe a few moments when Clay was blinded and that's it. He was on his bike all the time.

Chuvalo did indeed have him on the ropes a few times, though.

 

I´m a bit confused about some people give Marciano chances against Clay, and not against Liston. What is that special with Liston? I saw all of his available fights, and sure, in the late 50s he looked impressive, but think about it, it looked impressive because he fought only mediocre fighters or old, washed up ex-contenders. When he fought the elite, suddenly the "impressive Liston" changed. Beating Patterson twice viá 1st-round- KO is great, that´s why I rate him for example at 11th best HW ever. But not as high as some others of you here (Clay II for example have him as the 2nd best HW ever), let´s have a closer look at his opponents:


The first better fighter he faced was Summerlin, he won viá close UD, and in the rematch he only managed to win viá SD. But he was very young and green, OK. Next better opponent was Marshall, who he lost. In a rematch, he won viá TKO in the 6th round, but he was himself knocked down in the 4th round. And Marshall was a light-hitting fighter with only 179 lbs, he had only 11 KO´s in his 38 fights. But Sonny was still green (later, when Marshall was totally shot, Liston beat him again viá an UD, but that doesn´t count for me, Marty was a last minute substitute for Harold Johnson). Than, in his 19th pro-fight he TKO´d Bethea in the first round, a good win, because Bethea had a pretty good chin, and it showed that Sonny had good power, but some Liston-fans overact with this win, Bethea was only a journeyman. Than, some fights later, he TKO´d DeJohn in the 6th round. Than he had his fight against Cleveland Williams, a fighter, whose record looks good on paper, but in reality he only fought bums until Liston. Sonny TKO´d him in the 3rd or 4th round, his next fight against Valdes, who had at this time of his career 18 defeats yet, was a 3rd round KO for Liston, Valdes was totally shot and retired after a few months of this fight (he defeated London in his last fight). Than he rematched Williams and TKO´d him in the 2nd round. In his next fight, he beat Harris very early viá KO, but Harris is a fighter like Williams, who just looks on the paper good, he never beat someone beside 2 point-wins over Pastrano and Baker, and both were robberies in Roy´s hometown. Than he KO´d Folley in the 3rd round, a very good win because Folley wasn´t shot or anything like that and he was really good, IMO his 2nd best win after the Patterson-wins. Than he had a fight with Machen, a good fighter, but he went the distance and had some problems with him. The judges were ridiculous, Liston got 3 points penalized and he still won that fight pretty high, I remember this as a pretty close UD for Sonny without the point detuctions. Remember, Johansson KO´d the same Machen in one single round. Than he challenges Patterson, we all know he KO´d him twice in the 1st round, great wins, but look how Floyd was in shape, he was pysically in bad shape and also mentally, that fight shouldn´t have been made under this circumstances. Than after the Ali- defeats (it doesn´t interest me if he took a dive in the 2nd fight, fact is that he was twice KO´d by a mediocre-hitting fighter in Ali) he beat some mediocre fighters, and than against Martin, he lost viá brutal KO. Martin was also not a big man, and he had only 19 KO´s in his 36 fights. Of course he was shot there, but that´s no excuse to lose in such a way. My point is just, that his chin, power and in general his legacy is very overrated, and especially head-to-head. He often showed against at the best mediocre-hitting fighters that it is not too difficult to floor him, and he never faced a great puncher like let´s say Foreman or Marciano. All in all, I absolutely have nothing against him, it´s nothing personal, but I´m tired to read/ see how overrated he´s getting now...

 

Ali went to the ropes and let Chuvalo have his body,you can see him doing it,he wasnt trapped there or manouevered in any way,against a far netter puncher in Marciano I dont think he would lay on the ropes he would be in the centre of the ring as much as possible.

 

I think Marciano stops Patterson and loses to Sonny Liston and Cassius Clay.

 

A prime Marciano would be too much for them, Liston would be problems early but if the Rock was on his chest,it would be give and take,with both men feeling the power,Liston had the look that his power could kill you but Rocky proberly hit a lot harder, a young Ali would give him movement early but watching Ali vs Moore, a young Ali got tagged a lot by Moore, Rocky's pressure would be too much. Marciano had a bad style for Patterson, whose fast hands and power would make it interesting until he got caught and KO'd

 

Why did he go to the ropes though? I doubt any boxer would want to absorb some punches. Maybe he was looking for a rest after all that dancing.
I haven't seen the fight for a long while i must add, though. So my assesment may not be that accurate.

At any rate, Marciano's relentless pressure has forced many great fighters to go to the ropes, i don't think Clay can avoid them forever.