If Rocky Marciano had hung around too long ...

Living the life of Riley, actually.

The Rock quit for the following reasons... Bad Back, Bad Headaches, Bad Manager. He didn't look so hot against Moore. He looked worse against Cockell. I think it is safe to say that his best days were behind him. That said, the Heavyweight landscape in front of him was rather atrocious. Patterson would be a major obstacle IF the Rock had slid by a significant degree. Liston would be the immovable object thereafter.

 

I didn't realize 5'11 was a midget :huh

 

I've pinpointed the IBC's Machen as the likeliest prospect to eventually usurp Marciano in past threads on this subject, probably circa 1957. Eddie had toughness and durability Folley lacked to go along with his skills. With Rocky's body and bad back, hard training and swarming style grinding him down, I don't think he lasts until Liston in 1959. Patterson and D'Amato would have stayed at 175 and gone after Moore's title as long as Rocky remained on top.

By 1957, I believe Machen would have had the proper blend of youth, experience, toughness and skill necessary to upset Rocky and become a transitional champion between Marciano and Liston. Patterson might take it from Eddie, but not hold it long before Sonny came along.

 

what about ingo in 1958-59? he wiped the floor with machen after all. ingo was rated as early as 1956.

 

rocky would have wound down by 1958 but this obsesion with big cat williams has to end. The guy never made the ratings until june 1961.

8-3 sylvester jones handed cleveland williams his ass on his coming out party for his newyork debut on the marciano v lastarza card at the polo grounds. williams was boasting a manufactured 25-0 but was decked twice in his first competative fight.

Bob satterfeild was the first known fighter williams fought but that was in his 31st fight. wiliams retired for 2 years to get over the beating he took from his first rated fighter.

In his comeback williams was nursed through 12 further low risk fights to build his confidence up before fighting the next decent fighter, who knocked him out.

Even when williams beat a young unranked terrell who was 24-3 to his 51-4 he lost the return within 12 months....and that was his highlight?

 

people do not realize that Rocky Marciano was a very smart man. He knew his style of fighting was draining between the pre-fight preparation and Rocky's excessive training methods. Rocky was a 15rd fighter with a 15 Rd. plan.....He was discouraged at the time because he was getting robbed by Al Weil and a few injuries bothered him. The division was pretty much cleaned out and he was hoping Valdez beat Bob Satterfield so it may be marketable for fight 50 but Valdez lost badly and was dropped in the final Rd.... Cus D'mato said he was keeping Floyd at light-heavyweight because they knew Rocky was all wrong for Floyd. There were a few fights that could have been made but no real money fights....He could have fought another 2-3 years and picked up another 5 wins but for a fighter like Rocky once you lose the desire and do not love to train its time to get out.

Marciano fought 5 #1 contenders in 6 fights and one with his number 2 contender Don Cockel and that is unheard of

Say what you want about Don Cockel and I think talent wise David Haye was a better fighter but if Haye had a little more of Cockel gumption he may have went out on his shield or got closer to his goal.

Liston had 8 fights at the time and was far away from a title shot. Cleveland Williams was 31-1 but was Ko'd in 3 by Bob Satterfeild who in turn was KO'd by Ezz and Archie

 

Marciano would have shattered Patterson and Ingo's Chins. I think Liston would have been the first to get to him.

 

Plausible. But because of how Floyd was successfully maneuvered so quickly into the showdown with Moore for Rocky's vacated title, I believe Patterson would have gotten to Machen before Ingo. A case might also be made that Johansson caught lightning in a bottle with what he did to Eddie in Sweden. If Machen dethroned Marciano, Ingo would have had to go on the road to challenge him, something of a different dynamic.

Jingoism is something of a factor counting against Johansson, as America was the power base for HW boxing. The reality is that Ingo had to wait until June 1959 to nail his shot at the world title, and I don't know that would have been expedited more quickly with Machen at the top.

 

If 5'11 is a midget, I must be one of the smallest humans in existance at 5'8.


I think had Marciano fought on till he lost, I think he'd have lost around 1958 to a young and hungry Sonny Liston. At averaging about 2-3 fights per year, I think Marciano would've beaten Patterson, Baker, Valdez, and Machen, before losing to Liston. A fight with Ingo could've been dangerous though, but even past his best I think Marciano could've gotten inside and done some serious damage to him.

 

5-11/185 is a midget for a heavyweight.

Marciano did try a comeback when Ingo got the title, but as Bummy alluded to, he didn't have the fire in the belly to stand the kind of training it required... and maybe also he realized the tools he once had were gone by his mid-30's.

 

Midgets hit pretty hard. Micky Mantle 5'11 and about 185 pounds hit the longest home run all time well over 600 feet. Bobby hull was about the same size and had the hardest slap shot all time 118 mph. Yet lots of people rule out Marciano being able to punch as hard as heavyweights well over 200 pounds for some reason.

 

I do rate Cleveland very highly, if it wasn't for Liston I think he would have been the next champ imo, I think he was avoided like the plague. Stylistically him and Liston give Rocky more problems than the others too imo

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8J82HQnwVU[/ame]

He didn't look as good as the Charles fight though imo but 1 point would be, Rocky would train really hard to be conditioned so he may age more gracefully than I previously stated. You're right that he showed good stamina against Moore but he was pretty tired at the end

 

Apparently it is these days; Tyson, Marciano & Frazier always get called "midgets" in the general forum. :-(

I'm only 5'7.

 

I suggest you watch some boxing instead of staring at rankings and boxrec. Anyone with eyes can see how good Williams was

The reason he wasn't ranked until '61 was because all the ranked opponents avoided him like the plague and then he ran into Sonny Liston. Williams was still only 20 against Satterfield

 

why couldnt marciano match what sylvester jones did to williams in the polo grounds? was sylvester jones that much beter than marciano?

Bob satterfeild was lighter than Marciano.

cleveland williams gave one champion a hard time (before getting knocked out) but so did burt cooper. so what?

Name one "at the time rated fighter" cleveland williams knocked out before 1961.