If Rocky Marciano had hung around too long ...

I whatched all the boxing you have -and more! I whatched the utter pounding Liston gave williams both times as well as that lousy missmatch with the little white guy. Losing when williams stepped up in class was a running theme through out his career. He was found out a few times before finaly cracking the ratings after ten years as a pro.

Even by 1957 bob satterfeild was the only name on the big cats record and williams best wins before facing liston were unrated 31-13 frankie daniels or 27-16 john holman both on worrying losing streaks. there was nothing there that warranted an official eliminator or title shot.

williams had a weight advantage in over 70 of his 90 fights and in one of his beter results wound up drawing with a guy ingo KO'd in one round many years earlier. Dont get me wrong, williams was good and had tools he just got beat whenever he stepped up.

 

Well to be honest I think bringing up the Jones/Satterfield losses at the age of 19/20 is similar to bringing up Pacquaio's losses at flyweight, it has little to do with the fighter he would become.

Yes he did more often than not lose when he stepped up but in his prime he didn't get much in the way of opportunities bar Liston who most HWs in history aren't beating.

He did knock out Terrell, who was 1 of the best of the 60s and no one else knocked him out until his final fight. We don't know if he deserved the rematch with Terrell or the Machen draw because the film isn't readily available, but if he did it shows he is performing well against the best

What little we do know is he gave Liston 2 wars and looked good losing, no shame in that and those performances would have seen him beat allot of contenders in history in my view

Do we believe Williams didn't want big fights or do we think he was avoided by top contenders? I'm pretty sure on seeing how good Williams looked most managers would keep their fughter away from a 6'3, fast, brutally powerful man like Williams

 

No we should belive that the 6'3, fast, brutally powerful williams ran out on a fight with dick richardson.

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I don't buy any of that for a miniute, D'Amato didn't want Williams anyone near Patterson and has a clear agenda here. If Williams was a coward he wouldn't go anywhere near Sonny Liston

 

He definitely pulled out of the Richardson rematch with no clear explanation. It's not something D'amato just made up.
Williams failed to show up, refused to get out of bed, didn't even come to the weigh-in. Doctors visited him and pronounced him fit, but he refused to fight.

 

if he was running out on dick Richardson and disgracing himself by ruining an entire show he wouldn’t be doing himself that many favours with other promoters who might book him would he? the big cat was a fruit loop who heard voices in his head and lost the big fights.

 

He said he was sick, I've honestly never heard of Richardson, call this ignorance but I doubt he was someone that scared Williams

 

I tend to think Marciano was close to the end of the road. Maybe had one or two more fights left in him. By 1957 he'd be vulnerable to be taken by any of the top three or four fighters. Can't see him getting past 1958 against any credible challenger.
I guess he'd ruin a young Patterson in the meantime.

 

He said he was sick, doctors said he was fit, he said he heard voices from beyond.
He'd fought and beat Richardson before.
Richardson was a rough fighter. I don't know whether Williams was scared or not. Another man's fear is out of my remit.

Richardson was a decent heavyweight from Wales.

 

I never heard that Bad Headaches reason. I think Rocky retired mainly because of his lost for vigor when training. He got fat on vacation in South American when his wife was pressuring him to retire. He was going to make a decision after that trip for his family's sake. He came in Goldman's gym a little fat, looking like a man finally having enjoyed the fruits of his labor. Goldman knew then that he was going to retire. Al Weill and a Bad Back where just the icing on the cake for why Rocky should've retired, I think.

Goldman said Moore was his finest performance. I think he felt he was a finished product on a technical level. I like Rocky think he had maybe 1 or 2 good fights left in him... maybe 3 at the most. It actually seems the sentiment of non Marciano fans thinking he could extend his run toward 58-60 arena till Liston, Williams, or Machen overtook him. I think that's pushing at. Marciano fans seem to understand the most that his style isn't suited for longevity, and that Marciano pushing his reign past 56-57 would be pushing it. Physically, he was already declining, and 32 years of age. Although Tyson and Frazier got earlier starts. they didn't look quite hot at 32 years of age. Tyson was in exile after biting Holyfield's ear, and Frazier was getting bounced around the canvas by Foreman for the second time. Dempsey was getting whitewashed by Tunney.

 

Maybe Charles II.

Charles I is half a filmed fight. And most of those early rounds are Rocky losing. Rocky looks great & like hell in the later rounds, but this is when he's already taken command of the fight. It's not fair to say. If we had the Moore fight past the 3rd round I'd be inclined to disagree, as I suspect you would too. Rocky's finishing abilities due to his accuracy, and even his defense in offensive exchanges isn't quite as sharp/good.

I don't know how tired he was at the end. Are you basing this on the interview or him looking to slow down? I haven't heard that sentiment, though.

This is true. I've also heard stories of Cus swooping around with the Patterson rematch clause to kill that idea. So maybe both stories have a bit of truth to them.

 

I think Rocky was wise to call it quits when he did. His skills were on the decline and the wear and tear on his body was taking its toll. A couple of more years in the game would probably have resulted in a loss or two. Patterson would've been a tough challenge and Liston would've been too much for an older Marciano.

 

atsch
how can you defend Williams as a would be world HW champion so furiously if you have not yet researched all the rated fighters he fought? Its a bold statement to say somebody you have only seen on film being pounded to the deck by the world champions he did fight could have been a world champion. Especially if you have not yet checked out the ratings and film of opponents he met in the era he fought in.

6'4''dick richardson was over 200lb and he Ko'd karl mildenburger in one round and kod'd hans kalbfel (who archie moore could not Knockout), beat bob baker, old ezzard charles and bert Whitehurst who went more rounds with Liston than williams ever did.