If Rocky Marciano is so overrated, why has nobody else done what he did?

One thing that makes me believe even a 200 pound Marciano would still have incredible stamina and reserve is the computer fight with Ali. Though it was a complete work and in no way an actual fight, there were moments that slips occured. Ali would go on to say he was surprised that the 45 year old Marciano was still so strong and actually hard to hit with a jab, that he couldnt quite imagine fighting Marciano in his prime.

This isnt to say Marciano would beat Ali, all I am pointing out here is that at 45 and having lost 50 pounds to do this pseudo-exhibition of sorts, the Rock still was good enough to get praise from a man who was still in his prime and a few months short of defeating Quarry after a three year lay off.

Maybe this is a ridiculous proposition, but to me it does mean something. Maybe not to prove Marciano's capabilities at a higher weight (he was billed as being 200 pounds for the computer fight), but it gives a glimpse into the personal insight of possibly the greatest HW that ever lived, and his opinion on Marciano's overall abilities.

As for Tommy Morrison's comments on RINGSIDE, whoever could believe Morrison could defeat Marciano is just as big a bullshitter as The Duke himself. Morrison, arguably possessing the best left hook of the 1990's HW division, was too inconsistant a fighter to remotely prove his statement to be relative or possibly correct. His biggest win was over Foreman, but the fact of business is this: every time Morrison stepped up, he lost. And if Lewis is an ATG, and Morrison failed to beat him, then its logical to think Morrison couldnt beat an ATG in Marciano.


As for Marciano being slow...take a look at his fights. This man may have been slow on his feet, but when he charged and was right there in front of his opponents, his hands came out like a windmill, non-stop, and really, nobody could keep up with his pace. Moore couldn't. Matthews couldnt. Charles couldnt. Louis couldnt. LaStarza couldnt. Cockell couldnt. In the words of Archie Moore: "He was like a bull with gloves, nobody had greater stamina than him in those days."

And as for his defense...his ability to get inside without much harm done to himself, is VASTLY under-rated. Sure we know him best for his busted nose against Charles, for being a rough and tough SOB, but, if you watch the videos, alot of his opponents missed the majority of the shots they threw at him, or if they did land, they just clipped him as he was bobbing and weaving.

 

As for the 49-0 its self....its taken on a whole life of its own, you know?

Since Holmes failed to tie the record or surpass it, I have called every fighter coming close to the record a victim of the Marciano curse. Valuev started bragging he would beat the record, what happens? He doesnt make it. And to a degree I am glad Joe Calzaghe never brought it up, else I think the powers that be wouldnt have allowed it, course then again, Joe retired 46-0, not the 49-0.

Has it been beaten before? Yes, but mind you, nobody remained undefeated. Not Chavez, not McFarland, not anyone surpassed 49-0 and then retired.

 

Marciano put himself on a regime of fanatical training and a low protein diet. It was the only possible way he could get down to about 185. At the time it was commonly believed that gaining weight was a disadvantage. With a different training system he would have probably come in about 15 or 20 pounds heavier. Still much smaller than modern fat slobs who have never heard of training, and don't believe it is necessary.

 

Joe Louis was a propped-up wartime champion too, and had his own bum of the month club. Who does Schmeling beat even in THIS shitty weight division?

 

I watched Marciano's fights. He was really good fighter. He worked his arse off in the gym. I really respect his conditioning.

 

hmm says... wasn't Mariciano one of the smallest and slowest heavyweights with a back problem as well?

 

Everybody!

 

He may be overrated or underrated by some,but he was great and nobody can take that away from him.

 

larry holmes almost did it

 

I wouldn't call Marciano underrated or overrated. Although if you call him overrated I wouldn't blame you for saying so. Casual and mid-like boxing fans look at that 49-0 record and its easy for them to be in awe. Rocky was good but not great in my view. Here's why.

To start Rocky began to fight in a depleted era of boxing, when he first started it was in one of the two considered golden ages of boxing, this one being from the 30s to 40s(other one 60s-70s). But reason it was depleted was because he began his career until 1947, towards the end of many greats' careers. Here's where it begins for Rocky Marciano, he fought 49 bouts professionally. However more than half of his bouts were against journeymen AT BEST, in his first 42 out of the 49 bouts he only fought 3 decent names to most hardcore boxing fans, and of those 3 bouts only one big name, of course being Joe Louis. The other 2 decent names being Lee Savold and Ted Lowry. However, these 3 men averaged an age of roughly 35 years old when Rocky fought them, Rocky being in his 20s and entering his prime. And he did not face Joe louis and Lee Savold until his 38th and 39th bout respectively which by then Rocky was in his peak at 28. Louis was 37 and Savold 36. Joe actually gave Rocky a tough fight before being KOed in the 8th, don't forget this was Joe Louis' last bout ever and was 37, yet he still gave Marciano trouble.

It was until these bouts that he faced his best opposition in his career, he would face another 3 journeymen before facing 39 year old Jersey Joe Walcott in 2 bouts. Being 39 he was destroying a much younger prime Rocky over 13 rounds before finally being KOed with what many believe to be a lucky punch by Marciano, either way Marciano was loosing and loosing badly. After once again defeating 40 year old Walcott he would face other good names such as La starza, Charles, Cockell and finally Moore. Out of those 4 names the the top 2 are Charles and Moore. Both gave him tough battles with charles nearly beating him in both bouts while Moore a 41 year old natural Light Heavyweight floored Rocky in the 2nd round and almost went the distance.

With that being said, look at it like this. His best oppostion ever in his career is as follows.

Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Lee Savold

You're probably saying, wait a minute...that's a hell of a list right? Namewise, yes but not primewise because they averaged an age of 37 years old when Rocky fought them. And this being the best opposition he ever faced. Not to mention his miniscule 7 championship bouts at the end of his career. Championship bout opposition also averaged 35 years of age.

I'd also like to point out that rocky could have easily been 46-3, Lowry and La Starza fought Rocky to controversial decisions, decisions most boxing experts agree that both men defeated Marciano but he was given gifts. the 3rd bout I can't remember which one it is(if you know let me know). Because of these many believe Marciano was mobbed up(thats up to opinions I guess).

At the age of just 32 Rocky Marciano suddenly decides to retire after just 6 title defenses and against old opposition. This is also up to opinions I guess but its not very hard to believe. Rumors have always surfaced that Marciano suddenly retired so he wouldn't have to face upcoming Talent such as Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston. These young powerful men appear on the radar and suddenly Rocky retires? Residual there somewhere? Remember Rocky never faced a true 200+ pound contender and he even struggled against light heavyweight opposition such as Moore. A new age of golden boxing and monster fighters was blooming and Rocky had to know it, why didn't he relish his current standing as champ and waited for future challenges? He was only 32(33 at best).

Rocky just happened to be fighting at the right time and right place, in a very weak era of boxing(Joe Louis' golden age era had virtually expired by 47). Once younger and more great fighters began to emerge he had to know so he retired to protect his misleading 49-0 record from guys like Liston and Patterson who would for sure defeat Rocky. These guys were 220+ pound monsters unlike rocky ever faced. It seems to me he was the best boxer in a bad era of boxing. There's no other way around it the way things are with his career.

Im not saying Rocky is a slouch, definitely good boxer and the best during his era, but that era is one of the weakest of all time. And his best opposition evidence is there. Moore, Louis, Walcott, Charles. All averaging an age of 37. 35+ of his first 42 bouts were against mostly unknown journeymen. Some of these guys fought only 1 bout ever in the pros, of course against Marciano. 23 of his 49 opponents had at least 10+ losses, one of them having, 37 losses. Another having 48 losses. Another having 56 losses. Another having 67 losses(Ted Lowry). And most of the rest of his opponents never even had 10 bouts.

Again, if you look at his 49-0 record without digging in for some info you can easily be fooled by that record. Once you dig in for it his career becomes lesser and more degraded so to speak. You realize the 49-0 really isn't that great. Good boxer really, but if you were to put him in the middle of the greatest boxing era of all time such as the 60s-70s or in the 30s and early 40s there is no way Rocky comes out undefeated. He'd lose against all the top heavyweights of those eras and maybe win against most mid-carders...

 

You're a complete idiot. Marciano fought all the best fighters available in his weightclass, including the former champions. Ottke and Calzaghe??? Are you joking? No need to say anything about Ottke, but Calzaghe ducked lots of top contenders and former champs, and even current champs. Prime Jones and Hopkins, Glen Johnson, Antonio Tarver.

For whatever reason, Calzaghe did not do what Marciano did - not even close.:deal

 

To answer the threadstarter: the reason Marciano is underrated is that he never lost. Ironically, losing makes you better in the eyes of many. Losing makes you look more human, like you're one of us. People can't connect with a fighter who never felt the bitter taste of defeat.

So basically, Marciano's opposition wasn't so good for the simple reason that none of them beat him.

Likewise, Ali's opponents were all great. Why? Because they beat him! Norton and Frazier beat Ali, and that makes them great by default. Then Ali beat (a shot) Joe Frazier and "beat" Norton (watch the fights and you'll see Norton schooled him three times), and that makes Ali great.

It's pure nonsense, but that's how the kids on ESB think. Keep repeating "I am the greatest", and eventually they'll think that you're the greatest. Try it: it'll work!

 

I think more like everybody but two guys.