If Roy Jones KOs Tito then Beats Winner of......

Why bring Mosley into this? Did I ever even say he was an ATG? I said that he was on the cusp of being an ATG and he deserves more consideration than someone like Hill because Mosley actually beat another ATG.

 

Ok. Sorry must have been the other guy who was posting on here that said it.

Also would you say Oscar is an ATG?

 

Yeah. You don't see him as an ATG? He clearly is in my opinion.

 

I do. But how would you say he is because he has never beaten another ATG. Infact he lost when he stepped up in comp.

 

He beat Chavez to win the lineal championship at 140. He beat Whitaker to win the lineal championship at 147. Two all-time great fighters, neither of them were shot, but they were past their best no doubt.

I don't care what people say, he beat Tito at 147.

 

I had him beating Tito. I also had him losing to Whitaker and Chavez was well past his best. Infact Chavez was past his best when Whitaker "beat" him 3 years before.

Strange. I would give De La Hoya more credit by how he performed against Tito than he performed against the other two actually. Just wanted to see if your criteria had changed, wasnt sure wither you were of the Jack Prescott school of thought and would change your view.

I would say that Hill is a lower end ATG about the same level as Mosley. But we got somewhat off Topic about the Jones thing.

Say taking your views on who are ATG's: Hopkins, Toney and Calzaghe and won titles from middleweight to heavyweight. And coming back from getting KO'd brutally twice to beat a guy who would be number 2 p4p in many people's eye's. How that could resume plus the ability he showed in the Ring and his H2H ability not be Top 5/10.

 

I never counted the Hopkins win as much as most fans do to enhance Jones' legacy. Both fighters were green, neither were at their absolute peaks. Jones beat a peak Toney and should he beat an undefeated Calzaghe, that definitely raises his stock to perhaps the Top 20.

Jones should never have been in a position to be knocked out brutally twice by mediocre fighters. If you look at the resume of fighters in the Top 10, they are simply better than Jones' resume.

By saying that Jones has come back to beat Calzaghe, you're also implying that Jones still had something left when he got brutally knocked out by Tarver and Johnson. Keep that in mind, too.

 

I can see where you are coming from with that argument. But do you not take H2H ability in when you are determining a ATG list? Also I would argue that he would have a better resume than say: Joe Louis who never fought a "great" fighter, than Pep because he stayed in the one weight class rather than move up.

I would say when drawing up a list I figure in 40% H2H ability and 60% Record because otherwise a guy like say Mayweather who is great H2H but who's best win is over a past prime Oscar who a number of people have beaten is not so impressive.

 

My criteria is 45% record, 45% head-to-head, and 10% impact and legacy on the sport when making Top 10 lists. But when making lists such as the 100 greatest fighters of all-time, it's most likely around 70% record, 20% head-to-head, and 10% impact or legacy on the sport.

And I think Mayweather has a better record than you're implying. His work at 130 is very, very impressive.

 

Indeed it is. But he never beat any other Champions there, never unified but he is the best 130lb fighter in terms of H2H . So if you were doing a list of 130 fighters the fact that Floyd never unified does mean as much because he is so good H2H.

 

He essentially did unify with Corrales because Corrales was stripped of his IBF title for electing to fight Mayweather.

I don't care about unification, though. Mayweather basically cleaned out the division. The only mark against his stay there was that he didn't face the winner of the Casamayor/Freitas fight, but still, I don't hold it against him that much. He was clearly struggling to make weight and needed to move up.

 

I agree on all points....:scaredas:

 

i dont thik so rrj ko tito becase is not the same roy he afriad tito look his face in the press confernce is look sacare i think is another joke of the 90

 

:huh

What?