If Schulz had won Foreman's lineal title, would Botha or Moorer have been the next champ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 7, 2022.



  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    In 1995, Axel Schulz lost a fight to George Foreman for the lineal heavyweight championship of the world. Many thought Schulz should have won.

    Schulz next fought Franz Botha for the IBF belt. Schulz first was declared the loser by a split decision, but this was overturned and changed to a NC when Botha tested positive for steroids. The IBF nullified the result.

    Schulz then lost a close fight to Michael Moorer.

    My question to the forum:

    Imagine that Schulz had won his fight with Foreman, gaining the lineal title. Imagine further that the fights against Botha and Moorer happened exactly the same way as in real history. Who is the lineal heavyweight champion when the dust clears? Is it Botha, who beat Schulz first but got his SD win nullified after the fact by the IBF? (And only then after a court fight, IIRC.) Or is it Moorer, who narrowly beat Schulz a few months after the Botha fight?
     
  2. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Botha was lined up with Don King I think King had enough pull to rob Schulz just like what had happened. I did find that fight actually close and not a real robbery. Schulz came on down the stretch and I thought he did enough but whatever. If he does keep his belt past Botha, Moorer probably beats him anyway in a lack luster affair. Schulz was good, and I had him clearly beating Foreman, but he lacked aggression and power to be top level. He had good chin, stamina and a game plan.
     
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  3. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Foreman rematch is what would have happened.
     
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  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Probably true. But if it had played out as it did in real life, who would the post-Schulz lineal champion have been?
     
  5. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am firmly in the camp as a person who thought Axel pulled it off against Foreman. Regarding Schulz vs Botha, believe Schulz would still be considered the lineal champ since the decision was officially overturned. Moorer beating Schulz would them make Moorer a two time lineal champion.
     
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  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Botha was officially disqualified. I know it's listed as a no-contest on boxrec but he was disqualified by a judge's order, who ruled the IBF hadn't followed its own policy by not DQing Botha.

    Like Johnson-Flynn (when Flynn was DQed), Holyfield-Tyson II (when Tyson was DQed), Lewis-Akinwande (same) and Schmeling-Sharkey I (when Schmeling actually won the title with a DQ), Schulz would've remained the Lineal champion with the DQ.

    Then Axel would've lost it to Moorer. (Then Moorer beat Botha in a fun fight before losing to Holyfield.)

    So the lineal title would've gone Holyfield-Bowe-Holyfield (second time)-Moorer-Foreman-Schulz-Moorer (second time)-Holyfield (third time)-Lewis ... if Schulz had been awarded the decision over Foreman initially.
     
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  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Would've been a funny result, if you think about it. Germany would have the distinction of having the only HWT champion to win the title on a foul (Schmeling), and the only HWT champion to retain the title via a lawsuit interpreting the rules of a sanctioning body (Schulz).
     
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  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, someone has to interpret the rules, especially when the head of that sanctioning body was taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes.

    Bob Lee ended up going to prison, ironically, because one of the bribes he took was $300,000 from Bob Arum to let Foreman fight Schulz (who wasn't rated when they signed to fight).
     
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  9. The G-Man

    The G-Man Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Funnily enough Botha was forever announced the “former HW champion” after the Schulz fight altough his reign officially was about 2 months and really if he was DQ’d shouldnt have been considered champion at all.
     
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If Schulz had won the lineal title, then I think it very unlikely that he fights Botha or Moorer next.

    There would be two options that might make sense for him.

    A. Fight a couple of real no hopers to milk the title, then cash out against one of the big names.
    B. Simply cash out against one of the big names in his first and only title defense.

    If he chose option A, then his gimme defenses would probably have had to be worst than Botha, to avoid risking the big payday.

    If he choses option B, then it is going to be whoever can put the most money on the table, and that probably means Tyson or Holyfield.
     
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  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I agree, but the scenario specifically contemplates fighting the same guys to determine the consequences for the lineal title.
     
  12. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree Shulz would have been after a payday for sure. Regarding the Moorer vs Botha fight on the undercard of Tyson vs Holyfield. I remember the winner of that figjt being in line for the Tyson vs Holyfield winner. As it worked out, Moorer fought Holyfield after the 2nd Tyson vs Holyfield fight and Botha got Tyson.
     
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The I can add little to what others have said here.

    In some ways the question that I answered is more interesting, because it might have been.
     
  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Tyson, Lewis, or Holyfield.
     
  15. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic For the honorable cross and the golden freedom Full Member

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    Whatever scenario happened in the second half of the 90s, in the end the lineal champion would be Lennox Lewis.
    By defeating: Evander Holyfield, Shannon Briggs, Axel Schulz, Frans Botha...