If SD15 Basilio is Kid Gavilan's best win, Why is he considered Top 5 Welterweights Ever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by asero, May 9, 2020.


  1. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    SSR, SSL, Hitman, Mantequilla, Mayweather, Burley, Griffith, Whitaker and Burley are clearly ahead of him
    And if Basilio and Graham can be at par with him, Dela Hoya and Crawford can give him trouble as well
     
    asero, May 9, 2020
    asero, May 9, 2020
    #1
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Huh?
     
    George Crowcroft, May 9, 2020
    George Crowcroft, May 9, 2020
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  3. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Well, he beat both Basilio and Graham so it's not a knock on him and they were tremendous 147 pounders too. He also gave SRR his toughest welterweight title defense. I don't really think that Hearns, Mayweather or Griffith are 'clearly ahead of him' either.

    He's a lock for a top 10 spot and he has a good argument for around no. 5, I'd say.
     
    Jel, May 9, 2020
    Jel, May 9, 2020
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  4. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We can say that SSR controlled first fight and make Gavilan look good for the rematch to sell
     
    asero, May 9, 2020
    asero, May 9, 2020
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  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    We can say all kinds of things but it doesn't mean they're true.
     
    Jel, May 9, 2020
    Jel, May 9, 2020
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Why can we say that? How about you say what's true? Gavilán was a bad man who gave Robinson himself all he could handle.

    Gavilán has wins over Williams 2*, Jack, Dauthuille, Graham 2*, Bratton 2*, Dykes, Turner, Lausse, Basilio, Ortega and Ralph Jones twice.

    He has an ATG résumé, and I fail to see how you can argue Whitaker or Hearns at 147 over him.
     
    George Crowcroft, May 9, 2020
    George Crowcroft, May 9, 2020
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  7. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is crucial because this defines how good Gavilan is. There is no film to support that Gavilan did put SSR into difficulties. We can dig some archives that Gavilan was indeed no match for SSR as supported by their return bout a year later.
     
    asero, May 9, 2020
    asero, May 9, 2020
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  8. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    https://news.google.com/newspapers?...BAJ&pg=6501,4900020&dq=gavilan+robinson&hl=en

    Ike Williams fight is tainted with mob. There are reports of that in the 2nd fight.
    One only legit win Gavilan has over Ike Williams was when he was 10 pounds heavier.
     
    asero, May 9, 2020
    asero, May 9, 2020
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  9. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Gavilan gave Robinson a tough time over the first half of their championship fight. It was reported as such. The fact that Robinson pulled away clearly over the second half is a reflection of Robinson's greatness, not a slight on Gavilan's.

    What are you basing your assertions on?
     
    Jel, May 9, 2020
    Jel, May 9, 2020
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  10. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I just do not see his resume to be at par with Hearns, McLarnin, Griffith, Napoles, Whitaker, Ike Williams. These are all legit Top 50 guys.
    The more I look at it, his career belongs to the same tier as Carlos Ortiz, Basilio, Pryor, Ward and Toney
     
    asero, May 9, 2020
    asero, May 9, 2020
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  11. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    We're talking about one weight class here, welterweight. What would your all-time welterweight top 10 look like? For example, would you have Hearns above Gavilan? If so, why? Hearns's welterweight resume wasn't better than Gavilan's.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    Jel, May 9, 2020
    Jel, May 9, 2020
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  12. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Gavilan outside the WW top 10 is certainly worthy of discussion, but the rationale presented here is weak.
     
    salsanchezfan, May 9, 2020
    salsanchezfan, May 9, 2020
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  13. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Read my posts in a Jamaican accent Full Member

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    Actually, I don't think it is. For all of Keed's flaws, I don't think there's 10 better/more accomplished at 147. 5? Sure, but not 10.

    Cheers.
     
    KeedCubano, May 9, 2020
    KeedCubano, May 9, 2020
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  14. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I really do not see him being ATG Top 50.
    He is only dominant in one division and yet will not crack top Top of his division.
    He is in the same boat as Carlos Ortiz, Jack Britton, Luis Rodriguez, Vicente Saldivar as well as Wilfredo Gomez, Carlos Zarate and Aaron Pryor
     
    asero, May 9, 2020
    asero, May 9, 2020
    #14
  15. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You must be young. You hold weight-jumping in too high a reverence.
     
    salsanchezfan, May 9, 2020
    salsanchezfan, May 9, 2020
    #15