If Shogun beats Jones , what is the better option ??...

I disagree that GSP/Silva is like BJ/GSP.

First BJ doesn't walk around at above the welterweight limit - indeed no matter what he does he can't actually get his body above 170Ibs. Nor had he been gradually been building up muscle. Even before GSP starting bulking up in 2009 he was walking around above the middleweight limit and now he's nearing 200Ibs. BJ/GSP would have been far more competive if Penn was able to enter the Octagon at around 180Ibs.

Secondly both men have cleared out their divisions something that just wasn't true of GSP/Penn where GSP had only made one title defense in his second reign and Penn had made only one. Although everything worked out in the end, it was arguably premature for the UFC to booked the match (and arguably they would never have done so if Penn hadn't forced their hand).

Thirdly it was already proven that Penn could no longer use his skills to bridge the size gap. He had decisively lost to both St. Pierre and Penn upon his return to the UFC. We do not know whether that's true of St. Pierre...its something that would be good to find out.

Fourthly the stylistic matchup is less intriguing. St. Pierre's strengths naturally exploit Silva's weakness, and vice versa. You could not say that of Penn against St. Pierre.

But above all there's the history. St. Pierre and Silva won the title for the first time within a month of each other and UFC fans have seen them grow at the same time. Silva has the longest winning streak in the history of the organisation...St. Pierre has the longest streak of winning rounds in the history of the organisation. Sure if Shogun goes on a run I'd love to see him against Silva...but this is the match that has been building for years.

 

Good post.

 

Its a ****ing absurd post actually considering THAT WE JUST SAW ST. PIERRE TEAR KOSCHECK APART WITH STRIKING.

And if you go back to the Penn fight without his ability to outland Penn standing in the first round, noway is he able to overwhelm and get the takedowns in the second.

 

Yes, let's do that for all three, shall we?

Anderson was submitted via flying heel hook by Ryo Chonan, so therefore, according to your logic, he shouldn't even be considered for this fight. See where you run into trouble taking this line of thinking?

What I'm saying, and have been saying, is that according to their most recent win steaks, GSP and Anderson are, by far, the best out there. Now if you want to retroactively take Rua's record from Pride into consideration, fine, then you must account for the absolutely pathetic performance against Marc Coleman.

Let's look at their current winning streaks:

Silva dating back to April 2006 (Unfortunately the DQ is a loss..bull****, though) -

14 Straight Wins, 13 in the UFC.

Georges St. Pierre dating back to August of 2007

Currently at 8 straight wins and will be 9 if he gets past Shields.

Rua dating back to May 8th, 2010.

1 win.

Then lost the controversal decision in October of 2009

Then beyond that you have two straight wins over Chuck and Marc that date respectively as of April of 2009 and January of 2009.

He then lost in September of 2007 to Forrest.

See where I'm going with this? Stop making me waste my time. Think about what you're going to say prior to saying it and you won't have these bad arguments.

 

Actually, no. Because I don't considered B.J. to be in the Top 5 in skill and neither is Fedor, and to even make that argument you have to stretch the logic tremendously, which is something I wouldn't do, though you seem to have no problem suggesting it, which is a bit odd.

Anderson is taller then most Middleweights but certainly not the biggest. He's lengthy. GSP is of a similar frame. There was a marked size difference between him and Thiago, you can see it clearest when GSP has Alves' back in the size of their bodies/arms. The size difference isn't that great, if you're looking strictly from a poundage perspective. Anderson is 6'2 and GSP is 5'10. GSP has a 74 in reach, if I recall correctly, and Anderson has a 77/77 1/2 in reach. Nothing drastic. Plus the fight IQ of both of these fighters is clearly greater then anyone else so, yes, my initial conclusion still stands on firm ground,

 

Okay, you're still doing the same thing, which I've pointed out before, and the other guy has already stated to you.

You can't simply add up their individual skill sets and get a total number and say, "See? He's got this and this and this...therefore, in MMA, he's the most skilled." It's different. You can't say because you won a kickboxing championship therefore those skills automatically transfer over to an MMA setting. They don't. They have to be tweaked significantly. Same with boxing skills and wrestling and even BJJ.

You've somehow managed to misunderstand everything I've said, which is remarkable in itself.

"Gsp can gnp bj penn because thats one of penns weaknesses. "

This is just plain...well, dumb.

There is just so much other stupid in that post that I won't even bother wasting my time and the other guy did a good job pointing out the ridiculousness of most of it.

 

If you like logical leaps and parsed reasoning, it's a great post, but considering your argument I can see why you think this.

 

If you think Rua lost when he was 100% vs Griffin & Coleman (he won but looked badly short of fitness) then you are right, its probably a waste of my time debating with you but I`ll give it try... Rua in his last 3 fights vs Chuck & Machida twice looked to be finally the same fighter that we saw in Pride, that in itself puts him on par with any fighter in the world today p4p.... after all, he IS the champion of the toughest division in MMA.

 

Yeah, I like selective reading, too.

 

James grow up!

 

I'm all out of aHGH.

But, really...you take away that I'm the one that needs to grow up, despite my being civil and them resorting to name calling tactics? The irony is great for sure.

 

We can all swing things around to suit our arguments but it all started while trying to answer the thread title which is what is the better option... Silva-GSP @ MW or Silva-Rua @ 205 ?

The latter is the obvious answer because.....

1. It would be a more competitive fight due to the men being similar in size.
2. It would be a better action fight almost definitely due to styles.

We all know what GSP is gonna try & do vs Silva, the only thing he can try, get a TD & stay busy enough to avoid the ref standing it up again, thats all he is gonna be looking for the entire fight & even if he pulls it off its not likely to be as entertaining as watching Rua & Silva (the top 2 strikers in all of MMA) try best each other, no fkn way, please dont even go there.

Rua-Silva >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Silva-GSP

 

On this basis you have a better argument. However, what I was responding to was the nonsense arguments that I read.

And I would prefer Silva vs. GSP because they're clearly the two most skilled fighters and the smartest fighters (with the records and quality opponents to prove it). I know that a good fight doesn't necessarily have to be a striking oriented one.

And calling Rua, along with Silva, the best strikers in MMA is a bit over the top. Aldo is a far more technically proficient striker then Rua, and a few others as well. Now if you want to say the best striker at LHW, then you may have a point.

 

For effectiveness tho, Rua & Silva are the top stand-up fighters today, Rua`s technique is actually very good but its his power & the pace he sets (when on top form) that make him so dangerous IMO, he attacks like he is a bit of a wildman, no holds barred type fighter but he`s always composed & in control of his emotions even in the heat of heavy exchanges.

I cant think of a better fight in all of MMA... & Im not 1 of those fans that think grappling is boring & the only decent fights are stand-up ones, I love all high level MMA, Sakuraba v Newton is probably in my top 5 favourite fights ever & its 95% grappling... I just feel that no matter where the Rua-Silva fight ends up (feet or ground) it will be a very entertaining & competitive battle & the winner has a solid claim as no1 p4p even if he wins close because of the pedigree of the beaten opponent.

 

Okay, and that's all well and good if not a it partitioned and nostalgic.

The Rua from Pride is clearly not in the UFC anymore and never was. He's far more controlled and "contained" in his striking, partially because of the cage aspect and not the "ring" (I'll never understand their choosing the word ring for a square/half cube).

If you want to make the Rua/Silva argument, it must be purely on the striking potential because it can't be on the basis of his relatively recent perfomances, because then you'd have no argument.

I loved Pride as much, if not more, then most, but there is no intelligible way you can watch his fights in Pride and his fights in the UFC and come to the conclusion that they're similar in striking styles. It simply isn't. He was much more "reckless" in Pride because he could be, and perhaps because he hadn't matured as a fighter, or at least not as much as he is now.

This argument, ultimately, must be on the potential, which is simply speculative at best and even then it's still shaky, and it must only be on the basis because if you try and extend it to anything else then the argument doesn't have any real grounds on which to stand.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it, too. I'd just much prefer Silva vs. GSP for a plethora of reasons.