If Sonny Liston didn't die after his fight with Chuck Wepner

When a man dies it's usually a sign that he's way past his best.

 

Liston was not going anywhere. If he had beaten Martin he would have lost to the first top notcher he would have faced. He was way past his prime and ripe for the taking.

Also being ripped does not mean you can fight and it even does not mean you are in shape to fight.

 

I see Liston as retiring around 1971/72 then joining the George Foreman camp for a while.

 

I think his goose was cooked to be honest.

When a fighter declines past a certain point, it gains a momentum of its own.

His only future in the division, would have been as a stepping stone for up and coming fighters.

 

You cannot reliably tell age from face or body.
Though there are general correlations, training & genetics canmake things quite unkowable by just looking.
Weights-& sometimes PEDs-have made HWs much bigger.

There is no good evidence Liston was born before around 1930.
He often drank heavuily though, used drugs, may have been an addict.

Sonny was an ATG. Hard to know how it would go with peak Foreman.
I have no indication Foreman hit harder. Liston hit like a Monster, Wepner said HE hit harder than Foreman. And Sonny was more killed with better eudurance.
Sonny before Ali, age, drinking, the mob...Never lacked heart.
I think Liston is similar enough to FOreman that he could take Frazier.

 

Good post.:good

 

I agree that Liston was probably older than officialy stated, 12 or 13 years seems a stretch though. 34 when he won the title, or a little older, is a resonable guess, but there is a huge difference between 34 and 40. I think its more likely that he was in his early to mid forties when he died. That would make more sense when you look at his carreer (I agree that there is absolutely no point in looking at his face to try and figure out how old he was). Some athletes are just as good when they are 40 as the were in there 20s, but its rare. He looked so good beating Patterson that I find it hard to believe he was 40 or older then.

 

I think for the next few years after the Leotis knockout the boxing establishment would begin to look at Sonny's value more as a stepping stone for a rising contender then a serious threat that has to be dealt with..Poor Sonny
i imagine having Ali out of the game gave him hope for renewing his career
that ended with one big punch..
I never knew that Sonny was illiterate until recently...thats to bad i like Sonny

 

He wouldn't be a stepping stone he could only get low level guys, the second Ali fight shot his credibility, a win against Sonny wasn't big for a contender any more. No promoter wanted him to put him in with his prospect though, because he didn't want the Sonny of old to show up and put a beat down on his up and comer. He'd be stuck with the Wepners of the boxing world.

 

Sonny was listed as 10 years old in the 1940 census making him about 2 years older than his self proclaimed age. He was likely an alcoholic accounting for his older appearance
I don't read very much into beating Wepner who was much more colorful than good. .