First: This thread is not about disrespecting the Klitschkos in any way - they're the dominating HWs in this era and they've been doing their thing for years. They should get their due credit for that. At the same time, David Haye is the legitimate #3 man at HW and the most worthy contender, even if his defense against Audley Harrison was a disgrace. Second: I do not want to defend James Toney for coming in so grossly overweight to the ring time and time again, he's a lazy ass and his actions during the last couple years were close to scandalous. He disappointed his fans more than once and should retire. However, being so out of shape and fat, and only 5'10" (178cm), AND old, James Toney seemingly can still hold his own against most HWs. I'm not saying he can beat them, but he can hang with them - because he's that skilled. Surely I think both Klitschkos and Haye would stop him at this point, but apart from them... I think former MW Toney would at least be somewhat competitive with most HWs - another proof that the division is poor. The same goes for an ancient Evander Holyfield by the way. My point is: if the Klitschkos and Haye were not so athletically gifted as they are - if the Klitschkos were like 6'1" tall and David Haye was about 30 lbs overweight, like Toney is - nobody would even mention them and they would have been irrelevant for boxing, simply because they'd suck then. The Klitschkos don't suck, and that's good, but it's not because they're great boxers - they are good boxers for their size - but primarly because they're big. If they weren't that big, strong and tall, they'de be mediocre HWs at best. In that regard, Toney should be regarded as the greater fighter, greater than the Klitschkos or David Haye.
If David Haye were 30 lbs overweight, it would be a sign that he was less committed to his sport than he really is. If the K's were shorter, they would box with another style, and they have been faster boxers. They might be somewhat succesfull. Or they might not. Of course you need to be gifted to become a world champ of heavyweight. But the K's and David Haye have worked hard to capitalize on their unique strengths. Saying that James Toney - who is fighting tomato cans these days - is a better boxer than the K's and Haye is ridicilous to me.
Of course every fighter & athlete tailors their style to suit their strong points & mask their weaknesses. It's common sense.
And? The main point of their success is they're the two hardest working heavyweights in the world, and athletecism alone hasn't made them champions, their will and desire has.
I remember when Steward was asked what it was like to train Wlad compared to other fighters in his career. He said if he asks Wlad to show up at the gym at 5:00am he'll be there at 4:45am :bbb
Toney is that you? This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. Use some common sense! There are literally MILLIONS of tall people who couldn't play basketball or box if their life depended on it. It's like saying if Tim Duncan weren't as tall as he is, he wouldn't be an all time great. Or what if Mayweather was a heavyweight? Guess what, at a smaller size, Duncan may have been a great guard, and at Heavyweight Mayweather wouldn't carry the same speed & reflexes, humans aren't build that way. It's an extremely FLAWED argument. Like saying "Can you imagine if ants were the size of elephants?". Well you know what would happen? They'd suffocate.
If Ali wasn't so fast you would have never heard of him, if Foreman could not hit so hard he would be a punching bag, the list goes on. They are what they are. Majority of great fighters were called unorthodox because they've developed a style that suited their physical attributes and it is something that cannot be taught.
If you're of a different height and reach, you're most likely going to be trained differently to fight in a different manner. Most guys aren't like Riddick Bowe or Diego Corrales, taller and rangier than most of their opposition but better on the inside than the outside.
Toneys problem isn't that he's not "athletically gifted", his problem is he is lacking a professional attitude and a gym discipline. IMO, success in sports and business is 20% talent, 60% hard work and let's leave 20% to good luck and good health.
