If the Rematch happens, who's putting their money on Kov?

Liquid Fire · Dec 14, 2016

DoubleJab666 said: ↑

It's not narrow-minded. I said I 'struggle to see'. That's not saying he can't, or will not. I think Ward will readjust more effectively than Kovalev, that's all. It's an opinion. To be narrow-minded would be to reject plausible evidence but scoring is so subjective that we have no real evidence from a close fight - and it was close whatever anyone here might claim. It was a bout in which both fighters were effective in such different ways, that comparing where they were successful is devilishly difficult. So we all rely on instinct and make our calls from that perspective.

This whole thread is entirely subjective opinion. I have yet to read one person say - in this thread or the dozens of others - 'I was supporting Ward and thought he won (or Krusher) but having read other poster's PoVs I've changed my mind....'

And very, very few called the fight against their man. This topic is 90% tribal and 10% objectivity. If I'm narrow-minded, everyone is.

That said, I have always followed Krusher without really finding a reason to admire his work beyond power and intimidation, although seeing him dismantle Cleverly (a mismatch) was the first eye-opener to observing a special talent. Against Ward I saw a boxer beyond merely a fighter and puncher. I would love to see a rematch, and if Kovalev won - in a close fight or otherwise - I would be the first on here to give him credit.

Bottom line is, they are both excellent fighters but in very different ways so calling the rematch is always going to rest with gut instinct. Mine tells me, if it goes 12 rounds Ward would win again, but if Krusher lands clean - the knockdown punch in the 2nd did not - he could end the night early.
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It is narrow minded to call people cowerers & whiners when they hold judging to account. It is narrow minded to say you see Kovalev struggling (too emotive a terminology for me based on what happened last time) when Imo and many others he did a number on Ward last time. It is narrow minded yes. In this instance yes i think you are narrow minded but having read your latest post and seeing you elaborate more i accept i may have made you see the error of you ways & be a little more open.

Ps I don't think it narrow minded to pick Ward folks. I just think it narrow minded to call people names who don't and to see Kovalev struggling! Win or lose.. In either case I suspect it would be highly competitive. Struggle? That's something Froch did..

Liquid Fire · Dec 14, 2016

TheyDontBoxNoMore7 said: ↑

Yes I would still bet Ward if the fight was in Russia because I know Ward has no quit in him. Kov lost the minute he couldn't put Ward away. Kov had his best chance now that's over. I'm more confident in Ward in the rematch. You p u s s I e s are using judging as a smokescreen and a scapegoat. Plain and simple. Once again I've yet to see an analytical response that lists specifics on how Kov actually won this fight. He scored a KD and then jabbed his way to victory? GTFOH.

We all saw Kov lose steam, get outlanded by jabs and watched his body get snatched. His right became irrelevant. In fact he could only land a potshot jab after round 2. Ward's arsenal opened up. Wasn't limited to one punch. Landed at a higher connect percentage. Kov couldn't cut off the ring. He missed a bunch of punches. He couldn't land combinations. The better man won plain and simple in a dog fight because he had more fight and more grit and he adapted. Kov regressed.

You're damn right I'd be willing to bet especially if in Russia.

you all know he lost and you wouldn't bet money because you know Ward most likely wins the rematch.

In fact judging from a bunch of responses in this thread, a lot of people are happy with Kovs moral victory and don't want to see the rematch because they know it will get taken away.
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Now you're reduced to name calling again. Pussies? Really.. Come on man.

You're also sneering again. Analytical specifics? How about just scoring the rounds correctly instead of starting a new episode of CSI?

So you are honestly saying that you'd put a grand on Ward beating Kovalev in Russia with Russian judges knowing that most think Kovalev was stiffed the last time too? Yeah right.. Easy saying that on a computer screen hiding behind your anonymity safe in the knowledge that it isn't happening anytime soon. Who u kidding LOL

Liquid Fire · Dec 14, 2016

KiwiMan said: ↑

Liquid, I had Kovalev winning the first fight but Ward did seem to win 4 of the last 6 rounds in my opinion, showing that his adjustments were working to some extent.

It's not unreasonable to think that Ward outboxes Kovalev in the rematch with further adjustments.
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No no it's not impossible. Nor is it impossible that Kovalev & Jackson reflect & work on adjustments too, especially to the body which JDJ is currently doing I believe.

Liquid Fire · Dec 14, 2016

Cowerers, whiners & pussies! That is the ops view of those ppl who do not think Kovalev has a case. Op has literally embarrassed himself here.. Are Roy Jones, Vasyl Lomachenko & Antonio Tarver pussies op? How about Michael Buffer?

TheyDontBoxNoMore7 · Dec 14, 2016

Liquid Fire said: ↑

Cowerers, whiners & pussies! That is the ops view of those ppl who do not think Kovalev has a case. Op has literally embarrassed himself here.. Are Roy Jones, Vasyl Lomachenko & Antonio Tarver pussies op? How about Michael Buffer?
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I'm keeping my word. I'm very confident majority here on this forum and major media heads would not put their money on Kov in a rematch. Its just bandwagoning at its best. I support this on the fact that I've not seen an analytical breakdown of how Kov actually won from nobody. There's no way in hell a guy who got winded, regressed, and got literally reduced to landing a pot shot jab won over Ward who got stronger as the fight went on. Who was not limited to one punch but actually was able to land more variety of shots, outlanded Kov in jabs according to compubox, only was outlanded by a measly 10 punches in which Kovalev had to throw 140 more to do so but had a far lower connect percentage.

Ward won. This moral victory nonsense Falls in line with the same massive delusional mob mindedness of ******s who gave moral victories to the likes of Marcos Maidana and George Groves. All had great starts, all fell short. I went too far calling you a ***** and I'm sorry. But this is just another case to discredit a guy who's been hated for a long time and has for the most part been dominant his whole career and who happens to be a guy who people have been wanting to see lose for a very long time as well.

Been that way since Kessler. Kov got the closest but still fell short. We've already seen people claim Ward was never going to fight Kov and pull out. That's being repeated yet again. These pathetic ****s want the moral victory is my point. That's as close as these haters are going to get to a real victory and it's a pathetic stance to bank on. As far as media people I could give a ****. Most writers and public figures side on what's hot just for hits and to put food on the table. Their double standards and flip flop nature gets exposed again and again.

Until I see a concise, analytical breakdown that clearly states how Kov won with specific examples and instances, I'm keeping my stance. All I've seen are general statements and conspiracy theories and other ******ed stuff that doesn't follow how a match is scored on a round by round basis.

alexthegreatmc · Dec 14, 2016

Kevin Willis said: ↑

Ward's already squaking about retirment the guy will NEVER fight Kovalev again, ever, under any circumstance and all you cucks will applaud him for his self serving, disgusting cowardice.
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People said he wouldn't fight him the first time lol

alexthegreatmc · Dec 14, 2016

TheyDontBoxNoMore7 said: ↑

I'm keeping my word. I'm very confident majority here on this forum and major media heads would not put their money on Kov in a rematch. Its just bandwagoning at its best. I support this on the fact that I've not seen an analytical breakdown of how Kov actually won from nobody. There's no way in hell a guy who got winded, regressed, and got literally reduced to landing a pot shot jab won over Ward who got stronger as the fight went on. Who was not limited to one punch but actually was able to land more variety of shots, outlanded Kov in jabs according to compubox, only was outlanded by a measly 10 punches in which Kovalev had to throw 140 more to do so but had a far lower connect percentage.

Ward won. This moral victory nonsense Falls in line with the same massive delusional mob mindedness of ******s who gave moral victories to the likes of Marcos Maidana and George Groves. All had great starts, all fell short. I went too far calling you a ***** and I'm sorry. But this is just another case to discredit a guy who's been hated for a long time and has for the most part been dominant his whole career and who happens to be a guy who people have been wanting to see lose for a very long time as well.

Been that way since Kessler. Kov got the closest but still fell short. We've already seen people claim Ward was never going to fight Kov and pull out. That's being repeated yet again. These pathetic ****s want the moral victory is my point. That's as close as these haters are going to get to a real victory and it's a pathetic stance to bank on. As far as media people I could give a ****. Most writers and public figures side on what's hot just for hits and to put food on the table. Their double standards and flip flop nature gets exposed again and again.

Until I see a concise, analytical breakdown that clearly states how Kov won with specific examples and instances, I'm keeping my stance. All I've seen are general statements and conspiracy theories and other ******ed stuff that doesn't follow how a match is scored on a round by round basis.
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Kovalev won the fight with the knockdown, remember? Lol

alexthegreatmc · Dec 14, 2016

Liquid Fire said: ↑

It is narrow minded to call people cowerers & whiners when they hold judging to account. It is narrow minded to say you see Kovalev struggling (too emotive a terminology for me based on what happened last time) when Imo and many others he did a number on Ward last time. It is narrow minded yes. In this instance yes i think you are narrow minded but having read your latest post and seeing you elaborate more i accept i may have made you see the error of you ways & be a little more open.

Ps I don't think it narrow minded to pick Ward folks. I just think it narrow minded to call people names who don't and to see Kovalev struggling! Win or lose.. In either case I suspect it would be highly competitive. Struggle? That's something Froch did..
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Uhhh both Kovalev and Ward did not dominate the other. That fight was way too close.

Staminakills · Dec 14, 2016

IF ward chosen to continue his career (highly unlikely) I'll put every penny I have of loose cash on kovalev and be confident in my wager

DoubleJab666 · Dec 14, 2016

alexthegreatmc said: ↑

Uhhh both Kovalev and Ward did not dominate the other. That fight was way too close.
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Precisely....

M.3 · Dec 14, 2016

mirkofilipovic said: ↑

The judges are under order from the boxing establishment to make sure their American hero gets the victory over a Pro Putin Russian. The hometown hero vs the foreigner from the East, whom do you think would get the victory here? Even if the boxing establishment had Kova outboxing Ward they would try their hardest to give the fight to Ward. It is what it is, an American star at 175 would sell more than a Russian with a small fanbase. Also the experts agree as well that Kova was robbed, so your opinion means **** to me. Also corruption and bribery probably came in to play as well. There is a list of possible reasons, bad decisions exist in boxing.

You want a simplified and basic excuse why Kovalev was robbed? It is simple, Ward is American, the last great Olympic gold medalist representing the United States of America, Kovalev is the foreigner from the East who sympathizes with the most despised politician in America's list, Vladimir Putin, and who happens to be Russian with a thick accent as well. It should be obvious to anybody with a brain cell why this robbery existed. And the very fact that you refuse to acknowledge that the boxing community filled with experts, people who know about boxing had the fight for Kovalev already tells me you lack those brain cells. If Ward becomes a star at 175 they could promote him as America's champion, and a unified American champion at 175 would sell more than some Russian with dynamite for fists who likes Putin. This is not rocket science, it is called a hometown decision, dont overthink it. Ward was and is America's great hope for the 175 division, their golden boy.

Since 80 percent of the boxing community comprised of experts,judges,writers,hall of fame fighters etc scored the fight for Kovalev, YOU should accept that Kovalev won and think what are the reasons the judges screwed over Kovalev for? I gave you a list, now contemplate and move along.
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I didn't read all that because you're basically saying that he won because he's American witch is.... I don't even know what to call it.. Americans having every belt in boxing isn't helping anyone.. Ward winning all the belts isn't doing anything for anyone really.. There's not enough money there to profit from him being champ.. You act like this the WWE and they're trying to market a guy so they give him a belt at a PPV event..lol Ward isn't some rising star now that he won.. There's no benefit having Ward beat Kovalev or vice versa...

M.3 · Dec 14, 2016

mirkofilipovic said: ↑

The judges are under order from the boxing establishment to make sure their American hero gets the victory over a Pro Putin Russian. The hometown hero vs the foreigner from the East, whom do you think would get the victory here? Even if the boxing establishment had Kova outboxing Ward they would try their hardest to give the fight to Ward. It is what it is, an American star at 175 would sell more than a Russian with a small fanbase. Also the experts agree as well that Kova was robbed, so your opinion means **** to me. Also corruption and bribery probably came in to play as well. There is a list of possible reasons, bad decisions exist in boxing.

You want a simplified and basic excuse why Kovalev was robbed? It is simple, Ward is American, the last great Olympic gold medalist representing the United States of America, Kovalev is the foreigner from the East who sympathizes with the most despised politician in America's list, Vladimir Putin, and who happens to be Russian with a thick accent as well. It should be obvious to anybody with a brain cell why this robbery existed. And the very fact that you refuse to acknowledge that the boxing community filled with experts, people who know about boxing had the fight for Kovalev already tells me you lack those brain cells. If Ward becomes a star at 175 they could promote him as America's champion, and a unified American champion at 175 would sell more than some Russian with dynamite for fists who likes Putin. This is not rocket science, it is called a hometown decision, dont overthink it. Ward was and is America's great hope for the 175 division, their golden boy.

Since 80 percent of the boxing community comprised of experts,judges,writers,hall of fame fighters etc scored the fight for Kovalev, YOU should accept that Kovalev won and think what are the reasons the judges screwed over Kovalev for? I gave you a list, now contemplate and move along.
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Oh yeah, how do you feel about Ward "talking about" retirement? That kinda kills your whole argument if he only fights a few more times or none at all.. You'd think they would have told him about their plans to make him the next 'American Hero' and make him fight way more than he is now...

Orca · Dec 14, 2016

I predicted Ward to win the 1st fight and I scored it relatively clearly for Kov. I predict the 2nd fight to be 'genuinely' nip and tuck this time with similar scores as the first fight. The debate will rage on. I suppose I see it similar to Lewis Holyfield 1+2 without the wide scores of fight 2. Saying that opinions will change as it gets closer based on interviews , location of rematch etc. For the record I pick Kovalev to win the rematch.

Liquid Fire · Dec 14, 2016

TheyDontBoxNoMore7 said: ↑

I'm keeping my word. I'm very confident majority here on this forum and major media heads would not put their money on Kov in a rematch. Its just bandwagoning at its best. I support this on the fact that I've not seen an analytical breakdown of how Kov actually won from nobody. There's no way in hell a guy who got winded, regressed, and got literally reduced to landing a pot shot jab won over Ward who got stronger as the fight went on. Who was not limited to one punch but actually was able to land more variety of shots, outlanded Kov in jabs according to compubox, only was outlanded by a measly 10 punches in which Kovalev had to throw 140 more to do so but had a far lower connect percentage.

Ward won. This moral victory nonsense Falls in line with the same massive delusional mob mindedness of ******s who gave moral victories to the likes of Marcos Maidana and George Groves. All had great starts, all fell short. I went too far calling you a ***** and I'm sorry. But this is just another case to discredit a guy who's been hated for a long time and has for the most part been dominant his whole career and who happens to be a guy who people have been wanting to see lose for a very long time as well.

Been that way since Kessler. Kov got the closest but still fell short. We've already seen people claim Ward was never going to fight Kov and pull out. That's being repeated yet again. These pathetic ****s want the moral victory is my point. That's as close as these haters are going to get to a real victory and it's a pathetic stance to bank on. As far as media people I could give a ****. Most writers and public figures side on what's hot just for hits and to put food on the table. Their double standards and flip flop nature gets exposed again and again.

Until I see a concise, analytical breakdown that clearly states how Kov won with specific examples and instances, I'm keeping my stance. All I've seen are general statements and conspiracy theories and other ******ed stuff that doesn't follow how a match is scored on a round by round basis.
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Stop whining... LOL So these names I listed? Pussies? Cowards?

Until I see your 7 rounds Ward won (at least seven in fact) and the official punch stats that go with them backing them up and the 3 judges ALL agreeing on your rounds (you cited them yet they themselves had Ward winning differing rounds collectively hence you will have to acknowledge if the judges score differs from yours that your citing them is misleading thus undermining your own reasoning & reliance on them! Layman terms you will acknowledge the judges can get it wrong. Catch 22 there mate... You're welcome!)

Btw op if you don't like discussion or differing viewpoints then don't create a thread on a message board in future. Good one pretending you'd bet on Ward in Russia too! Good one calling people who question things childish names thus undermining your credibility or integrity as an adult. Ye good one op...

Liquid Fire · Dec 14, 2016

DoubleJab666 said: ↑

Precisely....
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No not precisely. You are dismissing out of hand any notion that Ward lost... So don't like a post that suggests it was razor thin. That undermines your whole diatribe.. Labelling people cowards and whiners and pussies yet acknowledging it was way too close kind of makes you look a bit dim.

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If the Rematch happens, who's putting their money on Kov?

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