If The WBO Belt Wasn't A Major Title Until 2004, Are All Pre-'04 Titlists Not Legit Champs?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Italian Stallion, Jan 13, 2021 at 1:48 PM.

  1. Italian Stallion

    Italian Stallion Active Member Full Member

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    Boxing's Grey Area: if the WBO belt wasn't a major title across all weights until 2004, what does that mean for boxers who won and lost that title in the ring pre-'04?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No champion is ever legitimate because they have the WBO belt, whatever the year.
     
  3. crixus85

    crixus85 Active Member Full Member

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    So, so true!
    In a nutshell to highlight this bunches craziness, they concocted a heavyweight belt, by pairing Damiani with Johnny DuPlooy to find their heavyweight champion. This was while Tyson was undisputed champion.
    Later they compounded their total lack of credibility when they allowed Tommy Morrison to yank out his sparring partner from the audience, Tim Tomachek, as his opponent hadn’t shown up. (Spell check on a couple of these names!)
    Wonder why they don’t just trip of my tongue!
    Recent years, just a couple more examples. Liam Smith and Billy Saunders, need I say more?
    No way can they be deemed legit.
    It’s always wbo, lower case, for me.
     
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  4. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    wba, wbc, ibf, wbo. The latter two, never "legit," while the former two elected to abandon their credibility in the late 1970's, if not earlier. As far as the boxers (managers, promoters), it's a shame they elected to play sanctioning bodies' game rather than letting them wither and die.

    If one of these bodies decided to play it straight, transparent, smart, and above-board, they could help make boxing more popular than ever.
     
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  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    The man makes the belt. Anyone who denies that Hamed and Calzaghe were champs but accepts that John Ruiz and Sugar Valuev were champs needs their head checked.
     
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  6. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    I think that’s oversimplified. At one point, 168 was ruled by Ottke and Calzaghe. Ottke got his belt by SD when Charles Brewer showed up in Germany to fight him. That doesn’t strike me as any more legit than beating Eubank or guys who were passing belts around like Reid, Mitchell and Brewer himself, which is what Joe did.

    Hamed won “Big 3” belts early in his career and throughout it, but generally dumped them partly because it conflicted with holding the WBO back then.
     
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  7. Italian Stallion

    Italian Stallion Active Member Full Member

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    @ecto55 @sweetsci @McGrain @NoNeck @crixus85: Thanks for your feedback!! So let me clarify: when I wrote "major," I meant included on the list of official world champs in the respective division. The majors are WBC, IBF, WBA, and WBO, but the IBO is not. That's why Brian Nielsen is not included in the official records books as a world HW champ, but Francesco Damiani is. So do we retroactively designate all WBO titleholders as official champs (I know many are not the "real" champs, but a champ is a champ; boxing has too much of a grey area not seen in other sports where the year-by-year champions can be listed and that's that...on Wikipedia (not too credible) there are official lists of world champs by division).
     
  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agree. It all comes down to WHO holds whatever said belt and how many of their contemporaries they beat.
     
  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    The perspective was different in Europe. I remember it being listed in some Euro boxing mag before The Ring/KO, which pretty much monopolized the US. That mag also tended to put much greater emphasis on am results when coming up with rankings.
     
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  10. Italian Stallion

    Italian Stallion Active Member Full Member

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    I can definitely see that. Central and Eastern Europe especially place a heavy emphasis on the amateurs. In hindsight, maybe that's why that part of the world has dominated Olympic Boxing for many editions. Do you happen to remember the name of the magazine?
     
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Maybe Boxing News but I don’t really remember. I do remember Tarver being PFP top 10 before he had even fought Harding....Their rankings, not mine.
     
  12. Soxial experimennt 2.0

    Soxial experimennt 2.0 Trans and proud banned Full Member

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    The WBO has been considered legitimate since the mid 90’s by those with enough power in the boxing business to have an opinion that matters and insignificant posters on a boxing forum won’t change that fact
     
  13. Jpreisser

    Jpreisser Active Member Full Member

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    When has 2004 become the "turning point" for the WBO? It certainly wasn't for me and many other Americans, and there still hasn't been one. The organization merely adds confusion to an already convoluted situation and it wasn't fully recognized by the other alphabet soups until, what, 2008? I remember watching Miguel Cotto pound out a bunch of fringe guys while holding it until 2006 and never thought he was a "champion". Actually, Bob Arum's relationship with them is what seems to have put them over the hump for many.
     
  14. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes ...Chris Eubank received a lot of flack ...because he never fight one of the big 3 belt holders
     
  15. Italian Stallion

    Italian Stallion Active Member Full Member

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    My understanding is the WBO got approval from the final organization, WBC, in 2004 and thus became major at that point.