If there had never been a Sonny Liston.

Patterson would still have had Cus protecting him. He dumped Cus so he could fight Liston. I think he would have ducked Clay until 1964 or 1965. Cus had a good nose for who could give Floyd trouble. That's why he kept him away from Machen, Folley and Williams.

 

Since Liston didn't beat them, Floyd would defend against Eddie Machen and Zora Folley. I think he defeats both. (We might even see a 15-round decision or two, something that never happened during Patterson's reign.)

I could also see him stopping Doug Jones and Henry Cooper.

Possibly a defense against either Harold Johnson or Willie Pastrano.

Without Liston, I don't know if Cleveland Williams really is a big part of the picture. He defeated Miteff and drew with Machen, around the time Machen was hospitalized for mental issues. I don't know if that gets him a shot.

I don't see the President of the United States asking Patterson why he hasn't fought Cleveland Williams.

 

I for one would be depressed Rich.

Though a quality era there wouldn’t be a defining leader of the pack.

Just think, without Liston, how many of the eras top fighters (including the Champ Patterson) would have their records repaired/improved - such was Liston’s cleaning out of the division before getting his shot.

Conversely, without the Champ Patterson, it’s an indictment on his reign given how little his own absence would effect those very same fighters’ records.

I agree that the Cus factor ensures more or less the same protected path for Floyd with Ali annexing the title a year or so earlier than 1964.

Besides that, how many threads and discussions have we dedicated to all the questions re Liston’s age, mob ties, fixes, glove tampering, Liston’s death etc? Without Sonny, that would leave a big hole in potential subject matters for discussion.

 

This site would never see the light of day!
No Liston.. No point!

 

Do you think that Polly sat on Deontay Wilder's shoulder in his second bout with Tyson Fury? Wilder blamed his performance on his costume being too heavy (I LOVED that excuse. Lol!) but I'm certain that I spotted a parrot following him into the ring.

 

Love it,Fergy!!

 

And it is heavily rumoured that 'Fanman' dropped into the ring during Bowe-Holyfield II in order to stop the parrot perching on Bowe's shoulder - knowing Bowe he would have eaten it had he caught it.

 

No need Rich. Nothing written re Liston escapes my eye. Really, it’s the only reason I visit.

Sure, I’ll comment on other fighters - that’s just a cover. It’s Liston I’m here to discuss. And perhaps Polly here and there also.

Did you know: besides the 3 bags of heroin, small amount of marijuana in the pocket and syringe found near the body they also noticed feathers strewn throughout the residence and a number of half-eaten crackers at the death scene? I mean, hello?

The dumb cops thought so little of it they didn’t bother bagging and tagging the most crucial evidence.

Or maybe, just maybe, one of the cops was in on it and contracted Polly to carry out the hit - likely the same cop that part time sanitation worker Sonny threw upside down into an industrial waste bin.

One last thing, one fighter Polly absolutely refused to work with was Cleveland Williams - she simply couldn’t trust The Big Cat to keep his destructive feline instincts in check.

 

Not forgetting Huckleberry Hound!