So marvin never puts on the gloves, how does the middle weight division look from 1980 to 87? Who does minter eventually lose to? We have Vito , hamsho, Sibson, Duran and Hearns all floating around in the division but with no Hagler there it's going to to make for a few title changing hands I would expect. And who does Leonard end up fighting for the middle weight belt, which I'm sure he would eventually.
What about Leonard`s detached retina? He only came back because the Hagler fight so big and he didn`t fight any of those guys at middle before the Hagler fight so why would he have fought them if they were world champs, Hearns could probably beat Ray at middle Ray only fought Hearns the second time because he though he was shot, Duran still had a lot left when he fought Ray but he was nowhere near as quick as he was at welter in their first fight Ray new he could outspeed him and run. Ray did fight Lalonde after his eye injury also but he knew Lalonde wasn`t as good as the guys above if he did come back maybe that would have been the same approach he would take, Ray fought Norris at light middle if anything if he did come back it would at that weight, he lost a lot of speed at middle, I feel if he did come back against whoever was middle champ he would either lose or it would be so close that he wouldn`t fight at that weight again.
Leonard may not have come back at 160 lbs as I can't see anyone who would motivate him like Marvin did. Minter may well have defended the title a couple of times than lost to Tony Sibson as in real life.
I actually think that Hearns might have been the big winner out of this. The title would likely have changed hands a few times, and then he could likely have grabbed the title. Between the Jr Middleweight division, and the Middleweight division, he would have had a very stable power base. This would have looked a lot more like the era of Hearns.
Leonard also only decided to fight Hagler after he saw him slowing down in the Mugabi fight, anyone who would have been champ in Hagler`s absence would have been near there prime, Ray wouldn`t want to fight a prime middle world champ.
Between the Jr middle and middle weights? You mean move up and down? He might have ended up fighting Mugabi at Middle or light middle for titles or maybe both at different points! That would have been interesting because Hearns fought differently at the two weights. I always thought it was a shame Robinson didn`t fight Basilio at welter a long with their middle clash because that would have really showed how different he was at welter compared to middle! Same with Mugabi v Hearns, I think the beast had a greater chance at middle v Tommy.
It would have been a merry go round of mediocrity. Nobody would have held the title for long Hearn's chin would always be a liability so while he would be head and shoulders above others in talent, he could get knocked off at any point. To start with, Minter probably could have reigned for awhile. Then Sibson, etc. Maybe even Hamsho. Fully Obel had the style to beat Sibson, so he even could have reigned at some point.
Mugabi would have moved up maybe and had a chance against any of these guys, if Mugabi won the world title he might have been a champ when Tate and Nunn came on the scene.
LOL Is this another alt, Fergy? You can just tell @Fergy hates making threads that aren't about Mike Tyson but he has to do it to make it less obvious
Are Are you guys kidding yourrselves or you just dont like him because Mustafa proved beyond a shadoow of a doubt he was by far the best middleweight the first five years of the 80s after Hagler. There is your UNDISPUTED CHAMPION
I could envision Mugabi upsetting Hearns. I always felt he had a better shot at beating Hearns than beating Hagler
Hamsho would be in the mix, for sure, But, I don't seen him dominating. He was very good. He won a close decision over Minter, he just nicked a young Parker in their first fight and outlasted Scypion. They were all competitive fights. No way he dominates like Hagler did.[/QUOTE]
I see Minter losing the belt to Sibson and possibly Sibson and Hamsho playing hot potato until Hearns moves up and eventually Nunn takes over.....I feel Sibson was the 2nd best middleweight during Haglers reign I think he beats Hamsho 4/5 times but Hamsho was the real deal....the era would have been more competitive without Hagler....Haglers endorsement of Sibbo is enough for me....I also think Sibbo hit as hard as Hagler and would have left hooked Hamsho into the canvas in a similar manner