But anyway under my scenario i think Moore was 50/50 with Ayala. Lets say for posterity Ayala beats him i think the Duran we saw beat Moore has too many tools for young Ayala and is a stylistic nightmare. His anticipation, his chin, his rolling with punches, his rugged and talented tactics in the trenches, his two fisted attack both up and down - Duran. The question then is does Ayala simply fade away ala Mugabi, Cooney and numerous other prospects of similar reputation once they are beaten and undressed? Or does he prove the exception and round out his game. Odds are he goes to jail regardless before OR after. That's my take. Fritzie Z who used to post here had enormous wraps on Ayala, so my opinion is just an educated guess.
If you take out his madness, you have a very ordinary fighter, thus any world class 154lber would of beaten him with ease.
I went to Tony Ayala's house when he was released from prison - I went twice because he was expected 12 months earlier but was made to serve every day of his sentence. I then went to his return fight in his hometown. He told me a story about chasing Duran one day in New York - a story that Lou Duva has also told. I think that he was good enough to get in the mix with George Kimball's Four Kings and create some havoc. He was a quite brilliant and troubled fighter. Adios.
John Mugabi would have demolished Ayala in the first. Mugabi would have knocked him into next week. Ayala was a solid fighter no doubt about it, but he didn't reach the level of Hearns, Hagler, Leonard & Duran. Ok, so if he hadn't of gone to jail he may have reached that level, but I can;t see beating any of those guys. Imagine Ayala trying to intimidate Mugabi or Hagler, talking **** about them. It would not have worked in his favour at all. Hagler would have skooled Ayala, gave him a beating. Ayala had talent & ability, was an exciting fighter. It would have been interesting to see him in fights against the elite, but I honestly feel he would have come unstuck if he would have fought them.
Strangely enough Mugabi never once beat a fighter as good as Ayala even excepting Tony didn't show us his actual potential. Mugabi's win record is tissue thin.
Judging by what I've seen from both of them I see Tony as the aggressor and Mugabi boxing and trying to counter. John would become the box in this one He was a silver medalist. But I dont see him being able to absorb what Tony can dish out. The reason is what I saw in the Green fight. Green was already a steppingstone at the time when the two were matched and James who wasnt known for hurting people, had the beast staggering back to the ropes. Had it been Tony dishing it out, the beast would have been gored to death. Duran? Just too fat and his "tricks" would have availed to as little to him as they had in the Hearns fight.
If I'm not mistaken, Monzon and Ketchel were also known for getting into scrapes with the law but still went a long way in their careers. You're making the common mistake of underestimating him.
Correction. Tony wasn't a boxer at all! He was molded in the same image as Dempsey and Greb. Accept the word of one who knows.
Leonard was all class and no chin. He couldn't possibly have lasted more than 4 rounds with Tony. The way he mixed it up with Kalule would have gotten him put in a hospital with a lot more damage than just a detatched retina. By the way, I never believed the retina story anyways. "An injury incurred in sparring" Yeah right!
Tony would have punched Duran to pieces. Duran just too slow to have any chance. But he would have fought Tony. Leonard wouldn't have. He would have blamed the reason on his eye.
After seeing what Tony does to Duran and maybe eventually to Hagler, Ray embraces commentating with considerably more gusto-and starting that acting career. I never faulted Ray Charles Leonard for not seeing the writing on the wall. Do you think he would wait for Tony to decline as well?
If all you can manage is a few :rofl you're not even worth bothering with. How could Leonard last if he was always getting decked? You must admit this kind of weakness would have been suicidal against Tony and Tony was far stronger than Ray. Do you believe his eye was a legitimate injury? I don't. What happened to all the talk of his eye after the Hagler fight. No one ever seemed to bring it up again after when he was fighting Lalonde, Hearns, Duran, Norris, Camacho. Not one time did I ever hear talk of his eye. He was fighting regularly so did it magically dissapear?
I know where the others are coming from. Duran has the history and experience on his side. He has a story but old fighters can only go so far especially against the younger fighters when they have to cross their paths. Look what happened when Roberto crossed hearns and when Leonard corssed Norris. They got creamed and Tony would never box Duran he would take charge at the start. By the way, I don't think Ray intentionally ducked Tony although he never would had the guts to face him either. If Tony sucked as badly as Lalonde and was carrying a belt, he would have found a way around all these excuses he had and got him in the ring. But the general rule in selecting his foes was, the worse they look, the slower they are the more interested he became in facing them. Tony never fit that description. Too young, too explosive. too awesome. The sight of watching Gregory, another Dundee pupil, getting his head smashed in put fear in Leonard and with a chin like rays' he himself knew he'd be toast. I believe Ray ducked Hagler, the number one fighter in the sport. Leonard was humiliated on the aire the morning after the Hearns fight when he was on GMA and they had seated Ray next to Marvin. Marvin said it straight to his face "You cheated the public by refusing to fight me" Ray was totally embarrassed on the spot. He had it coming though. Ray was always scared to fight another middleweight or jr middle .that's why you realy saw him fight at that weight. He was also scared of Nunn.