If Tyson and Frazier Switched Eras

It is because of a combinations of aspects....

Tyson could literaly kill you in one round.... but if it doesn't happen then he will try the same thing in the next round..... and if he doesn't happen then he will try the same thing again..... then frustration hits and he is done for the night.....

Ali on the other hand could fight the whole night and will use his skills to outbox you and school you and frustrate you and then if the opportunity comes he will KO you....

There are other things of course.... but what I said before as intangible is more important.....

 

I don't think Tyson knocks 70s Ali out. I think Ali gets overwhelmed by Tyson's offense and gets pounded on, then clinches, until the decision. I don't see Ali's power or strength being enough to slow Tyson down enough. By then, he wasn't moving his feet enough either, and I ultimately see that as a huge reason why Tyson would be the boss. Yes, Tyson could fight for more than 4 rounds in his prime but I won't get into that argument any further than I have.

 

To overwhelm someone you have to be consistent..... Tyson would have to keep the same pace during the whole fight, and I think he wouldn't be able to do that..... his pace would decrease drastically after the first 4/5 rounds and the best boxer (in this case Ali) would prevail....

I think you haven't seen enough of Ali...... He never applied strength to slow his oponents down...... he frustrated them and used his skils to make them waste their energy.......

 

I don't understand people who say that Tyson was only good for the first few rounds, and then tired. It baffles me.

How did this theory get propagated? It's one of those "facts" that people hear, and then pass off as a second hand opinion. You hear "experts" say it all the time.

To put it bluntly: It's not true.

Name me a Tyson fight where he exhibited this scenario.

In Tyson's only relevant losses--to Douglas and Holyfield--he was losing rounds right from Round One.

In his decision wins and longer fights, he looked great to the end. Ruddock (7 and 12 rounds), Ribalta (10th round KO), Thomas (6th round KO), Biggs (7th round KO), Tucker (12 rounds)....and so on. He even almost knocked Douglas out in the 8th after being hammered for 8 rounds with one eye!

Tyson never lost a decision win! And all of his decision wins were blowouts! There isn't a single fight where Tyson's stamina was an issue.

Nobody ever "weathered losing the beginning rounds, to then have Tyson tire, and go on to win." Yet people talk like this happened to Tyson all of the time!!!

 

What Jaws said.

Ali also had his share of spotty performances in 70s. Not strictly later in the 70s. I thought he looked like **** against Bonavena.

And the thing about Ali making opponents waste energy wouldn't work well enough with Tyson. Tyson relied on accurate, compact punches. No winged haymakers.

 

Totally disagree.

In all of Tyson's longer fights and decision wins, he had very consistent output, activity, and strength.

I'm not saying he didn't slow down at all. But he didn't tire any more than the man across from him. Or any other great fighter for that matter. This is the key. Y'all act like Ali never got tired!

 

It isn't about being tired....

Let me put it in a different way....

Why did Tyson was not as good late in the fight as he was in the first four rounds???

Why did he lose by Ko late in some fights instead of him winning by ko.???

Why did he lose to Douglas? Was it because he couldn't Ko him before???

Why did he lose to Holyfield? Was it because he couldn't ko him before???

Whether Tyson was ahead on the cards or not is irrelevant.... he was a type of fighter that became vulnerable if he coudn't ko his oponents early....

His stamina might not have been an issue, but his output was not the same and therefore his oponents had a better chance.....

Tyson was great.... he was strong and used his strength and power to overwhelm his oponents.... but after the first four rounds his pace was not the same and eventhough he still had his power, he was more vulnerable.....

..... thereofore a type of boxer like Ali who had a good chin and good skills would survive the first four rounds of Tyson fury and then he would go to box his way and get the win......

 

You are misunderstanding.....

Tyson's output in the begining of the fight was abnormal...... after the first 4/5 rounds he was more like a human.....therefore a normal fighter..... his output would decrease and therefore his oponents would have a better chance.... specially those with skills....

 

Maybe. Actually he would have to. Unfortunately and naturally, he's a slow started (Due to that rhythm kind of style).

Basically. I'm not arguing he loses to Tyson's comp but his effectiveness definitely gets hindered. Stamina, workrate, pace were all great strengths.

Yeah, non-title fights. And a lot of them were close, and a lot of them would be arguably much closer if they were scheduled for 12 rounds.

That's speculative by nature due to the assumption that 70's Ali was probably either that much more adaptive, smarter, or had a better chin (And power I guess). Ali really didn't have to this kind of adversity so this idea gets a little pressed. I can see the reasoning behind it and I often wonder the same thing but I think that the idea that Ali was some how so much more smarter and better and able to overcome because he PROVED it more is wrong. That same idea was publicized around in reasoning to the Ali vs Marciano fight. A lot was unknown at the time. This is where revisionism is appropriate (Unless you honestly for some reason believe that Ali's mental strength, chin, and intelligence were that much better to outweigh his faded skills).

 

When did Tyson get frustrated and lose. In his prime? Tyson had an outstanding corner who could keep him on task. Tyson is just as fast as Ali and hs the defense to make him miss plus the offense to make him pay. Ali's style is perfect for Tyson as well. Watch the first Patterson/Ali bout. It is or at used to be on youtube. Patterson by than past his best was able to make Ali mis at times and land as well. If Patterson could do that than tyson could as well. 70's Ali was more likly do what was needed to beat Tyson at his best Hit and Hold. It is an ugly style that won't win you any points espicily against an agresive boxer like Tyson. Basicaly Ali would be going for a late round ko. The probblem is that Ali is a lot of things but a puncher at least by heavyweight standers is not one of them. Tyson has a very solid chin. So a knockout of Tyson by Ali is not likly.
Prime Tyson vs. 60's Ali Tyson t/ko 7/15
Prime Tyson vs 70's Ali Tyson Decision 10-5

 

Tyson got frustrated when he fought Holyfield, and he lost.... and by ko.... whether he was in his prime or not I couldn't tell....

On the other hand I never saw Ali KOed..... I saw him being stopped when he was old.....

 

Tyson was well past his best when he fought Holyfield.

 

Then why didn't he have more late KO's? His KO ratio in fights that went over 5 rounds is poor. He could maintain a pretty steady output against Smith and Tucker etc, but they put no pressure on him at all, only tried to survive. Any fighter with close to decent stamina can maintain a pretty solid workrate over 12 in such conditions.

I don't think Tyson's stamina was poor, but neither do I see at as proven. More importantly I think he showed that his effectiveness decreased greatly after 4-5 rounds. One can just do the numbers to see that.

 

There's no way,imo that Tyson would beat the Ali of 1970-75. The Zaire Ali would knock Tyson out. The Manila version would win over the distance. Tyson would outpoint the Ali of 1976 onwards. In what would resemble the Foreman-Lyle fight,George would ko Mike. Frazier would beat all Tyson's opponents,maybe taking a bit longer to do so. He would stop Bonecrusher Smith,though because Joe was a better inside fighter than Tyson,which would slow Smith up quicker.

 

yep he should start smokin earlier. but let's pretend the fights are still 15 rounds i think tyson will loose to ali and forman and beat everyone else. joe would only loose to lewis and maybe 1 out of 3 against holyfield