If he'd suffered a loss on his way to the belts ,as Louis did ,would Tyson have even made it to Douglas as champ ? Would he have being a different fighter from 86 /90 ,with a big chunk of self confidence gone ,with maybe a loss to Tucker ,Thomas etc ?
It depends on the reason he was beat, Tillis did well but the only way he could of lost is threw being green or a lucky punch, he would still have a great team around him and the reason he beat his opponents wasn`t just through intimidation, he was something else, having said that to fight the way he did he needed to be relaxed according to Rooney when speaking about Tyson`s losses, tricky one though.
Jacobs and Cayton were never going to take unnecessary risks with Tyson. Part of the mystique was building up an impressive knockout record and taking the smoothest path to being the youngest ever heavyweight champion. Tyson was also Tyson. He was unlikely to lose to anyone on his way to the top, and by mid 86 was pretty much ready to run through the competition that was available. Tillis, Green and Ferguson were good learning fights. Even with Tillis where Tyson lost a few rounds, there was never a huge chance of an upset. The odds of Tyson losing before Berbick were pretty slim. It's impossible to say what effect an improbable loss would have had on him prior to that point. He may have gone completely off the rails, or he may have been young and impressionable enough to learn the lessons and come back better unlike post-Douglas. Based on how much better he was than his opponents from 86-89, it's difficult to see anything other than a complete meltdown preventing him from getting to the top of the division. It wouldn't have been possible though to build up the same aura about Tyson if he had a random loss to a fringe contender on his record, so he probably wouldn't have had the same global profile and marketability.
You hit the nail on the head what I was getting at. In all honesty I can't see anyone pre Berbick beating him .But if he'd come across a Tillis type on the way up with a Douglas mentality, even if Tyson had won but being severely tested to the point of being behind on points and coming back ,then I wonder how it may have effected him. Because he had such a easy way up to Douglas ,he was never tested. His confidence sky high, but with a loss or near loss it may have being different .
He may have lost confidence. Part of his early success was his supreme confidence. It's hard to say, but I doubt he'd have done as much as he did pre-Douglas if he had a loss.
He barely edged Tillis. If his management put him to too tough too early, he could have lost. Several Champions/Contenders could have beaten the Tyson that fought James Tillis.
Tillis did severely test him. He hadn't gone past 6 rounds before that fight. At least he had a few full 10 rounders before fighting Berbick. Many have gotten title shots with less experience than Tyson had going into the Berbick fight. The key was Tyson improved markedly from the beginning of '86 until the Berbick fight. -Jessie Ferguson: Didn't roll over and took some hellacious punishment before being stopped in six rounds. - James Tillis: Used movement and guile to frustrate Tyson. - Mitch Green: Showed a great chin and used his height and reach to spoil. - Jose Riblata: Took hellacious punishment. Tyson had to retain his power into the 10 th round to finally get Ribalta out of there. -Marvis Frazier. Tyson got rid of him quickly and efficiently. Exposed Marvis's lack of durability. - Tyson was ready when he got the shot at Berbick. His management could have screwed up and put him in with somebody like Tony Tucker or Greg Page at the beginning of '86. They could have rushed him into a title shot against either Tubbs or Witherspoon. They gradually increased the quality of his opposition in '86, but it was light years better than his competition in '85. He probably would have beaten Thomas or Michael Spinks in '86, the two other champs. Spinks was too small and Thomas was suddenly fading.
Tyson was not a guy who could have a loss and fight as well after. Once he lost to Buster, he was never what he was later. not because of slipping as much as he took things for granted. Too much money and fame.
Tyson's management were very astute and always had a clear plan. Tillis was about as big a risk as they would have been willing to take early in 1986, and it was probably a surprise to them that he extended Tyson in the way that he did bearing in mind his recent form. They obviously had to move relatively quickly to win the titles quicker than Patterson, but it was still calculated risks along the way. Berbick was probably considered the weakest of the champions at that time, as well as the easiest style match-up for Tyson. Berbick didn't have the ability outbox Tyson, and probably not the punch to really stop him in his tracks and push him back, so his come forward style was effectively suicide. If he had say Lomachenko's management team, they may well have thrown him in with Spoon or Thomas early in 1986, or took on contenders like Tucker or even Biggs. If Tillis could extend that version of Tyson, there's no guarantee he comes through those fights unscathed. For this scenario to work though, I think Tyson has to have a different management team than the one who guided him through 1986 en route to the championship.
Ironically, Spinks was regarded by many as the "real champ", but in retrospect would have been the easiest match-up for Tyson.
