If Vitali Klitschko enters the top 10 ATG, does that force Lewis to #3?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jersey Joe, Sep 2, 2010.


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  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He's been beaten up a few times, notably by Toney in 2003 and Donald in 2004. Ibragimov beat him clear enough in 2007.

    But most people here were saying Valuev would kill him too, kill him quite literally.
    I dont think a big slow old guy like Vitali would be a special danger to Holyfield. As I keep saying, he isn't exactly killing the likes of Sosnowski.
    Haye might be a danger because of his speed and power, but he's also chinny and may leave himself open.

    Holyfield is no mug. He's a damn sight better than old Shannon Briggs, who's just some pro-wrestler-sized circus act who can knock over set-ups in 1 round but that's about it.

    I dont overrate Holyfield. I think he's shot to hell and it would be good if he retired. But I give him credit for being better than some of these other chumps in the division.
     
    Unforgiven, Sep 4, 2010
    Unforgiven, Sep 4, 2010
    #106
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Holyfield runs the risk of tarnishing his legacy by pressing on.
     
    Mendoza, Sep 5, 2010
    Mendoza, Sep 5, 2010
    #107
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Don't you think Vitali opted not to unload bombs early in the Sosnowski fight? Vitali has no problem with accuracy. He would turn Holyfield into a bipedal punching bag.

    Aside from Valuev, who do you think Holyfield would defeat in the top ten? I can not think of one person, however I can think of quite a few not in the top ten that would defeat Holyfield.
     
    Mendoza, Sep 5, 2010
    Mendoza, Sep 5, 2010
    #108
  4. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Holyfield would be a fool to take on Haye. I think unforgiven is right in his asessment of that fight but I don't see it happening. Haye fights very safely in last two fights. His speed would really do a number on Holyfield. I think Holyfield should wait for Vitali. That's probably his best shot and it's not a good one.
     
    lefthook31, Sep 5, 2010
    lefthook31, Sep 5, 2010
    #109
  5. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    I believe both Klitschkos have stated that they would not fight Holy out of respect.


    And Holy should definitely not be fighting anyone at this point.
     
    cuchulain, Sep 5, 2010
    cuchulain, Sep 5, 2010
    #110
  6. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

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    Vitali already at 13th ATG Heavy for me.

    Lennox already 2nd ATG heavy for me.
     
    Foreman Hook, Sep 5, 2010
    Foreman Hook, Sep 5, 2010
    #111
  7. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Neither do I but I do have them in the 11-15 slots.
     
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    #112
  8. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah the accomplishments of Wlad have been better. But it's clear Wlad is a flawed and vulnerable fighter, whereas Vitali despite weaker opponents and reign was much more dominant and had intangibles at the top level.

    I don't rate him in the top 10 either but I think he has a decent claim to 11-15 based on his overall attributes and domination of most opponents. If he fights a few more times and easily beats Briggs, then moves on to beat Haye, I think he would get extra points for doing well at an advanced age.
     
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    #113
  9. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The difference is Bowe ducked Lewis and was clearly outboxed in a few fights. Vitali lost on a cut against an ATG, lost his other fight by shoulder injury, and dominated all his other opponents, with a huge KO ratio and huge won/lost rounds ratio. Basically both Vitali's losses are fairly easily excusable and don't really count against his fighting ability as much as the way Bowe lost.

    Vitali also clearly has more heart, chin, will to win, aggressiveness etc than Bowe i.e. championship intangibles. It's unfortunate he had such a long break from the ring, and did not fight in a better division, IMO he had the ability where he could have put together a more impressive record, given the chance.
     
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    #114
  10. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It depends how you rate fighters. If you rate purely on results vs quality of opposition then clearly his weak opposition makes it hard to rate him more than the bottom of the top 20. If you rate fighters more on their fighting attributes then he should be much higher, certainly above guys like Sharkey or Patterson who he would quite frankly beat 9 times out of 10.
     
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    #115
  11. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    5 years is a long title reign by HW boxing standards. Also it's harder for the later fighters to have a very long reign due to the fractured multiple belts nature of modern boxing.
     
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    Jersey Joe, Sep 5, 2010
    #116
  12. Muchmoore

    Muchmoore Guest

    How the hell does Vitali have more "will to win" than Bowe :lol:
     
    Muchmoore, Sep 5, 2010
    Muchmoore, Sep 5, 2010
    #117
  13. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    Easily mate.

    Quitting whilst miles ahead on the scorecards is much braver than taking a shellacking until the opponent can't beat you any more and quits himself.

    Didn't you know ;)
     
    Beeston Brawler, Sep 6, 2010
    Beeston Brawler, Sep 6, 2010
    #118
  14. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    :lol::lol::lol:
     
    lefthook31, Sep 6, 2010
    lefthook31, Sep 6, 2010
    #119
  15. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Didnt Vitali agree to face Holyfield in his next fight after Briggs?
     
    lefthook31, Sep 6, 2010
    lefthook31, Sep 6, 2010
    #120
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