If Vitali Klitschko...

Which future ATG did sanders beat :think

 

:yep

Besides, one fluke win does not a good fighter make... unless RonnieHornschuh believes that Sanders is actually a better fighter than Wlad overall based on that win? :think

By that reasoning, is Ross Puritty better than Mavrovic as well? Is Buster Douglas better than Larry Holmes?

 

of course i didn't mean that, i was just saying that sanders actually has some good wins, mavrovic has wins over francis and saleta. tough as nails for sure and a solid european champion but no world beater.

 

A backhand is illegal, holding the guy's neck with one hand and hitting him with the other (A Lennox Lewis specialty) is illegal, punching after the bell (Tua-Rahman I) is illegal, every punch Luis Resto hit Billy Collins with was illegal, etc...

Lewis cut Brittley with a legal shot.

 

A "backhand" is not a punch, and a "hold" is not a punch.

 

Holding and hitting results in a punch. An illegal punch, or if you want to play semantics, an illegal "move", which can result in a KD or a KO. Like Lewis KOing Grant.

 

Fine. So you basically agree with me then?

I never said Mavrovic was great, just that he could easily be a belt-holder nowadays if the likes of Ibragimov, Chagaev, Valuev, Lyakhovich and old man Maskaev could do it.

I would say the same for Vitali for the same reasons - he also was great against journeymen, but failed when he stepped up to the elite. He would be a beltholder nowadays (if he could make it through a training camp), but he is not anywhere near an ATG list.

 

First, Ive looked at the Lewis-Klitschko fight so many times, I dont see how a natural punch could cause so many of the cuts on Klitschkos face. What I mean is when have you ever seen a fighter 's face get cut up so much in so many different areas of the face? Above the eyes, below the eye. I guess this proves how powerful a puncher Lewis really was. And how great of a chin Klitschkos was/is.

After all that said, VKlitschkos size and smarts make him one of the most formidable heavyweights in history in my eyes. I think wed be all surprised how very few in history would be fortunate to beat him without any questions asked.

 

i agree to a certain degree. but its not like vitali got schooled when he stepped up. his body (skin/shoulder) let him down. it's the same as when nadal is two sets down against federer and then hurts his shoulder and is forced to quit. then you can't say - wow, federer schooled him! byrd wanted to rematch whatsoever. vitali would be a threat to any hw in history, i think we can agree on that.

 

Who said either Lennox or Byrd "schooled" Vitali?

All we said was that Vitali didn't school Lennox. Not every victory is a "schooling" you know. :roll:

The tennis analogy is not relevant because your body's ability to withstand physical damage is an integral part of boxing. An injured shoulder in tennis is not caused or worsened by your opponent's tactics, defense or movement was the case in Vitali vs Byrd.

 

i see your point but sometimes injuries just happen. i'm not saying byrd caused the injurie by holding his glove open and slap vitalis arm like some do. the tennis analogy can't be taken 1:1 but sometimes you just injure yourself by making a wrong step or wrong move a là valuev-mccline where valuev didn't have much to do with mccline's injurie.

 

Fully agree.

Vitali is an extremely rare blend of immense size, strength, and athleticizm. Never before has a fight of his size, been as talented and skilled as he is.

 

OK, but in the case of both of Vitali's losses, his injuries were caused or worsened by a combination of the opponents tactics/skills and his own inability to counter those tactics.

Lennox's accuracy & timing and Vitali's bad defensive tactics (staying close after the cut, not keeping his hand up to cover it, not circling away from that side) led to him getting hit repeatedly on the cuts in that fight.

Byrd's movement and Vitali's bad accuracy and timing led to or worsened (we'll never know which) the soulder injury in that fight. His connect percentage was awful in that fight. He threw twice as many shots as Byrd but they landed roughly the same amount.

Having a leaky defence, bad timing, bad accuracy, cutable skin and injury-prone joints are physical deficiencies that are detremental to being an elite boxer. Just like bad footwork, bad reflexes, a weak chin, slow hands etc.. in other boxers.

 

Absolutly right and Wladimir Klitschko had understand it. Because of this he changes from Sdunek to Emanuel Steward, who teaches him very well.

I think both Klitschkos had changes the trainer at the begin of there career. Wladimir try with Turner, Brooks and Roach but Sdunek come back and this was worse for both brothers. But Wladimir understand, Vitali maybe not.