If Vitlai defeats Sam Peter, where will rate as an all time heavyweight come back.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Sep 23, 2008.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    Where would Vitlai Klitschko’s comeback rate if he defeats Sam Peter?

    Here is the situation. Vitlai will be facing Sam Peter, who is in his prime, and rated #2 by Ring Magazine.

    Vitlai Klitschko is 37 years olf. He has not fought since December 2004, which is means by the time he and Peter fight, it will likely be 3 ½ years of in-activity. In addition to the ring rust, Vitlai has had to battle knee and back injuries. No man that I can think of has ever come back to win a belt with a three way obstacle of age, ring rust, and a major injury against him. Not one.

    In the history of gloved boxing, the only heavyweight I can recall that came back at age 36+ after a 3+ lay of to win a title was George Foreman. In truth, it took Foreman had many warm up fights, and needed three tires to win a world title belt back. Foreman lost his first two chances and was defeated by Holyfield and Morrison.

    Vitlai is not having any warm up fights. The annuals of fistic glory have had several instances where X linear / Ring Magazine Champions have tried to regain their title after a lay off, at an older age, but have failed. John L Sullivan could not do it. Jeffries could not do it. Dempsey could not do it. Louis could not do it. Liston could not do it. Holmes could not do it. Foreman did it, but it took three tires, and the perfect match up for him to pull the upset. If Vitlai defeats Sam Peter, where will rate as an all time heavyweight come back in your opinion?
     
  2. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    It would be a great comeback for sure, although modern nutrition, better fighting conditions, etc, these days, do lead to longer careers, which is one of the reasons we've not seen anything like this before outside of Foreman and a few others perhaps.


    On Peter being in his prime - he certainly is, but i think his peak was against Wladimir Klitschko. Back then he was in decent shape, fearless and fought the way he should fight: make it a brawl and beat them to it. His boxing skill against Toney (rematch) was impressive, but that's not gonna get him anywhere against either Klitschko.
     
  3. SteveO

    SteveO MSW Full Member

    4,255
    14
    Feb 4, 2007
    I'd rate it an 8.

    Definitely a good one, but I would pick Foreman and Ali over it, for starters.
     
  4. kenmore

    kenmore Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,132
    28
    Jan 29, 2008
    I find it strange that there have been no reports on the internet about how Vitali is doing in training camp. No reports of sparring partners, nothing about Vitali's physical condition, etc.

    Who knows what's really going on. I wouldn't be surprised if Vitali pulls out of the fight in the next couple of weeks.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    There are ton's of photo's. Vitlai looks in excellent shape. A filmed press conference has already taken place too.
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    Ali was young, and really was around & active for 4+ years. In fact Ali had already fougth 18 times, and beaten Frazier and Norton before he meet Foreman!

    Hence, Ali was already back and established. Not exactly a come back. Ali's comeback was after a two year layoff in 1978. He returned in 1980 to face Holmes, and got pasted.
     
  7. SteveO

    SteveO MSW Full Member

    4,255
    14
    Feb 4, 2007
    He is a limited power puncher, true.

    But he's also a high ranked HW. And I'll respect him for that.
     
  8. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,801
    10
    Oct 10, 2005
    If he beats Peter is his comeback better tan Joe Louis's? I don't think so.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    ??? Louis comeback saw him get badly beat on by Charles, and Ko'd through the ropes by Marciano.

    I think there is some confusion on what a come back is. A come back is after a fighter retires, then comes back.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,779
    47,623
    Mar 21, 2007
    Vitali is in great shape. So he will win. The comeback is't anything that extraordinary because he should be favoured. It will be impressive, but nothing amazing, a very, very achievable goal.
     
  11. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

    5,479
    12
    Jul 15, 2008
    I agree, especially when we consider how out of shape Peter is and that he never was anything special. A good and remarkable comeback nonetheless and it will do him good when his career will be analyzed but it´s not up there with the comebacks of Louis, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    Who else came back after a 3+ year layoff with no tune up fights to win a belt at age 37? Names por favor.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,779
    47,623
    Mar 21, 2007
    You are quite right, nobody. But the thing is Vitali ALWAYS beats Peter if he is coditioned and prepared. There is almost no doubt. He is a class above and a stylistic nightmare for Peter.

    Just because nobody else has ever met the particulars doesn't make it great, just unique. Credit where it is due - if has held onto his memory for boxing at the highest level and coditioned himself properly, that will be a fine achievment by itself, a 6 or 7 on your scale.

    But, once again, if he has those things he wins.

    If he doesn't, he loses.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,344
    Jun 29, 2007
    Father time is a tough opponent. Vitlai is 37. Ring rust can eat away at the most talented pound for pound fighters. Vitlai has not fought in 3.5+ years. Injures are tough to over come, both physically and mentally. Vitlai has had knee, and back injuries. Furthermore, Peter is in his prime. ( Peter 28, ranked #2 by ring magazine ). Seldom do we see a highly ranked #2 fighter fall to a fighter who’s almost ten years older than he is. There is no warm up fight for Vitlai. Overcoming all of these hurdles in one fell swoop would be a great accomplishment. If Vitlai stops Peter for the first time in Peter's career, it will be extra icing on the cake.


    A nine or ten on my scale.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,779
    47,623
    Mar 21, 2007
    Everything you say is true.

    But I insist upon my position - if he has enough left to beat Peter, he will, if he doesn't, he won't. That's all it is.

    There is that off chance that he will have only enough left to make it really competitive - he will be so rusty that Peter tracks him down but still good enough to win. Off the deck, alter his style, come through horrible cuts, whatever it might be, then I would have to admit to being more impressed than I imagine I would be by the win.

    But I don't expect that, he looks good. I expect him to be sleepwalking and get beaten or, more likely, be well conditioned enough to box his way to a 12 round decision against an immobile limited opponet.

    Peter is dangerous and underated on the Classic board, but he is the ideal man for this assignment. Peter is the warm up.