If Vitlai defeats Sam Peter, where will rate as an all time heavyweight come back.

MEndoza makes this thread every 2months

In terms of quality of win at an advanced age it is below:

Ali-Foreman
Walcott-Charles
Foreman-Moorer
Holmes-Mercer
Lewis-Vitali
Holyfield-Tyson/Moorer/Rahman/Ruiz

And thats just at heavyweight that I can think of off the top of my head. Peter's just poor and I have my Vcash on Vitali, its a no brainer

 

As you said only Forman has comeback from such a layoff and won a title. I think it would be a very good accomplishment but I doubt he will get any credit from the media or many fans.

 

If Vitali is is shape I think he wins,Ive never thought much of Peter,but I like The Ukranian,he might not be as fluid in his boxing as his baby brother ,but he appears to have a more "Dempsey" like attitude to the game.he put up a good effort against Lewis taking him close,imo.Wlad backs off when a guy comes forward,as though he is gunshy,when he goes in he looks impressive ,but he needs a bit more "fire in his belly",I think.I can't rate Vitali an ATG for beating Peter ,just don't think he's that good,there again the division is pretty poor at the moment.Haven't seen Povetkin yet ,how good is he,the English commentator at the Valuev Ruiz rematch said he is one of the better fighters out there.

 

Is beating Peter better than this?

 

atleast peter isnt ducking the best fighters out there unlike "i won't fight my brother"

 

Vitali coming back to beat Sam Peter is NOTHING ..... These guys are both nobodies in heavyweight history . Sam Peter reminds me of David Tua from 8 years ago when he was exposed by Lewis, hes nothing .... Vitali got beat by Lewis when Lewis had a week's notice for the fight in 2003 ......... These guys are both 'Names' in 2008 but in historical terms they are both bums ..........

 

The obvious problem is that Peter just plain isn't all that good. A disgustingly fat 38-year-old James Toney beat him in the eyes of the majority of fans and sportswriters who saw the fight. A 37-year-old Jameel McCline who was recovering from a severe injury and hadn't had a major win in five years had him on the deck three times and on the brink of a knockout less than a year ago. His crowning achievement to date is a premature stoppage over a 39-year-old Oleg Maskaev who was coming back from repeated injuries and hadn't fought in well over a year. On the whole, then, old, injured, rusty contenders who were never all that good in the first place have already plainly demonstrated their ability to severely trouble and beat Peter- this is why people don't find the idea terribly unlikely that an old, injured, rusty ex-beltholder who actually WAS an outstanding fighter in his prime could beat Peter, even if he's even more injured and rusty than the aformentioned fighters. Basically, Peter ranks highly because he's the only heavyweight aside from Wlad who is fighting reasonably often and is adding "W's" to his record against opponents who still have at least nominal status in the division. In an actual head-to-head sense, I don't believe he's one of the top three, or probably even top five, best heavyweights in the world right now, although he places there in the rankings due to the fact that guys like Chagaev, Ibragimov, Valuev, Povetkin, Haye and Vitali either hardly ever fight, don't consistently face at least nominally-credible opponents, or haven't established themselves.

All of that said, however, Peter is still a genuine contender who is in his prime, and while a win over Peter wouldn't be very historically significant under regular circumstances, doing so directly out of a four-year layoff at an advanced age would make it substantially more impressive. Nevertheless, the attempts made here to turn this into some legendary feat are decidedly strained and exaggerated; Peter is just not all that terribly accomplished or especially good, and under virtually no circumstances would a win over him constitute a career-making validation of one's historical greatness. Notice, numerous fans who do not consider Vitali Klitschko a boxing legend are perfectly willing to pick him over Samuel Peter in spite of all the circumstances involved. As for other out-of-retirement comebacks, Ali came back from a similar layoff to defeat a substantially better opponent in Quarry (yes, Vitali is older, but heavyweights in this era are not aging so fast as their predecessors), Holmes came back after three years out while well into his '40s to build a winning streak and defeat Ray Mercer, who was a far more credible opponent than Peter, and Foreman's return from a 10-year layoff to return to the top and ultimately regain the title is in a whole nother league altogether. Even Dempsey returned after a three-and-a-half year layoff during which he was virtually sedentary to beat Sharkey, a far more credible opponent than Peter, in his second fight back. Vitali's comeback would be probably third to fifth on this list, which is still impressive, but would not make up for the numerous deficiencies in his career relative to many other historical heavyweights.

 

Okay, but how's his sparring going? Nobody is talking about that. For all we know, Vitali may be struggling in the gym even though he looks to be in shape for photo shoots.

 

I think Vitali will win by knockout easier than anyone will believe. The only way Peter can win is if Vitali were to take a dive so as to get an ever bigger fight with Vlad, but I doubt if Vitali will do such. Vitali at only 50% can beat Peter. Vitali hits a lot harder than McCline or Vlad.

 

Very good post !

 

Peter was outclassed in the first fight. He won, but it was one of those cases where the loser gained credibility and the winner reaped embarrassment.

He's improved since then, and that's partially why he won the rematch with Toney, but I don't think Toney and Klitschko are in the same league as heavyweights.

This is a flawed analogy.

Oscar was never rated highly because he shared the era with Ali, Frazier, Quarry, Ellis, Patterson, and Lyle; Peter shares his era with Wladimir Klitchko. At least two of the heavyweights in Bonavena's era rate higher than Wlad, and all should realistically rate higher than Peter.

Wait just a minute. Are you actually comparing Jersey Joe and Oleg Maskaev? I think we all know there are mitigating factors involved here. For me, and for anyone who's even vaguely reasonable, really, there is no comparison. This is just a poor effort at playing devil's advocate.

You are correct here. History tells us there has been none, but only because Sam Peter shares the era with only one 37-year-old man approaching legendary status.

If you're asking which long-lived champions have a similar chance, and could conceivably beat Peter, well, then, I think Holmes at 44, Holyfield at 37, Lewis at 38 and Foreman at 45 all have decent odds.

I think based on what he has accomplished so far, he's not a very good fighter.

He reached the top because he is relatively better than the rest, and he's the only one besides Wlad who is racking up wins of the bunch.

In my opinion, there is nothing Vitali can do in the ring that could match Ali's losing effort against Frazier in the Fight of the Century. He might post a result similar to Ali's lackluster effort against Bonavena, but I don't expect anything more.

I agree. The victory over Mercer alone does not overshadow Vitali's impending win over Peter. However, Larry was a recurrent force in the heavyweight scene in a way Vitali had failed to be in the past. He had his time in the sun when Lewis retired, but the injuries of a long fight career caught up with him.

Only time will tell if he can build on a Peter win.

You constantly make mention of George's multiple failed attempts, but one should maybe also consider that if by some act of God, Samuel Peter was the champion at the time Foreman was making his comeback, Big George would have two less attempts on his ledger.

Foreman would have an easier time with Peter, in fact, as at least in Moorer he was against a fairly good boxer, whereas Peter, while powerful, is possessed of deficient skills.

Sharkey was brilliant on that particular night so his inconsistency is not an issue I would bring up. He was also a very dirty fighter in his own right, repeatedly throwing punches after the bell and whatnot.

Dempsey hit him, and he went down. At first, I too thought that it was the groin shot that completely incapacitated him, but more and more I get the feeling that he was just hamming it up for the referee to notice the foul.

 

Mendoza, please stop the Klitschko nuthugging. You are a very decent poster but this is so awful.