If Walcott Had Faced Charles Another Twice??

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jul 29, 2022.


  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    From what we have, Walcott run from Louis in the second part of the fight.
     
  2. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    With Walcott holding the belt, in those days, I suspect it would have taken a knockout or an overwhelming win by Charles to have taken the belt back. I doubt if either of those would have happened.
     
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    And what exactly did Louis do to win the fight?

    Here are the scorecards:

    Hank O'Donnell, Waterbury Republican, Walcott, 12-2-1
    Ted Meier, AP, Walcott, 11-3-1
    Wilbur Wood, N.Y. Sun, Walcott, 11-4
    John Carmichael, Chicago News, Walcott, 11-4
    Lester Bromberg, New York World Telegram, Walcott 10-5
    Murray Rose, AP, Walcott 9-5-1
    Harry Grayson, NEA, Walcott, 8-4-3
    Frank Eck, AP, Walcott 9-6
    Jesse Linthicum, Baltimore Sun, Walcott, 8-5-2
    Sec Taylor, Des Moines Register, Walcott 8-6-1
    George Barton, Minneapolis Tribune, Walcott 8-6-1
    Al Abras, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Walcott 8-6-1
    Elliott Cushing, Rochester Democrat-Chronicle, Walcott, 8-6-1
    Lewis Burton, N.Y. Journal-American, Walcott 8-6-1
    Bob Considine, INS, Walcott 8-7
    Whitey Lewis, Cleveland News, Walcott, 8-7
    Leo Peterson, UP, Walcott 7-6-2
    Jack Cuddy, UP, Walcott, 7-6-2
    Gordon Cobbledick, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Walcott 7-6-2
    Hugh S. Fullerton, AP, Walcott. "He scored the harder punches" [no score provided]
    Frank Graham, New York Journal American, Walcott [no score provided]
    Ted Smits, AP, Walcott [no score provided]
    Jim Schlemmer, sporting editor, Akron Beacon Journal (Akron, OH) - Walcott
    Jesse A. Linthicum, sporting editor, The Sun (Baltimore, MD) - 8-5-2 Walcott (score provided by Associated Press)
    Jean Rouchard. The Evening Sun (Baltimore, MD) - 8-6-1 Walcott
    Tommy Holmes, Brooklyn Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) - Walcott
    Ralph Frost, Brooklyn Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) - Walcott
    Tom Ryan, sporting editor, Evening Courier (Camden, NJ) - 12-2-1 Walcott
    James E. Doyle, Cleveland Plain Dealer (Cleveland, OH) - 10-4-1 Walcott
    Gordon Cobbledick, sporting editor, Cleveland Plain Dealer (Cleveland, OH) - 7-6-2 Walcott (score provided by Associated Press and United Press)
    Jack Sharkey, International News Service - Walcott
    Frank Eck, Associated Press - 9-6 Walcott
    Elliott Cushing, Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY) - 8-6-1 Walcott
    Jack Cuddy, United Press - 7-6-2 Walcott
    Ray Grody, Milwaukee Sentinel (Milwaukee, WI) - 7-6-2 Walcott (score provided by United Press)
    George A. Barton, Minneapolis Morning Tribune (Minneapolis, MI) - 8-6-1 Walcott
    Alan Harvey, Canadian Press - 6-5-4 Walcott
    Gene Ward, Daily News (New York, NY) - 7-6-2 Walcott
    Leonard Cohen, New York Post (New York, NY) - 8-6-1 Walcott
    Jimmy Cannon, New York Post (New York, NY) - 8 rounds for Walcott
    Al Abrams, sporting editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Pittsburgh, PA) - 8-6-1 Walcott
    John M. Flynn, sporting editor, The Berkshire Evening Eagle (Pittsfield, MA) - Walcott
    Bill Cunningham, The Boston Herald (Boston, MA) - 7-6-2 Walcott (score provided by United Press)
    Sec Taylor, sporting editor, The Des Moines Register (Des Moines, IA) - 8-6-1 Walcott
    Burton Hawkins, The Evening Star (Washington, DC) - 7-6-2 Walcott
    Bill Lee, sporting editor, The Hartford Courant (Hartford, CT) - 7-4-4 Walcott
    Charlie Tiang, sporting editor, The Kingston Daily Freeman (Kingston, NY) - 9-4-2 Walcott
    John Webster, The Philadelphia Inquirer and Public Ledger (Philadelphia, PA) - 11-3-1 Walcott
    Harold W. Heinz, The Springfield Union (Springfield, MA) - 8-5-2 Walcott
    John McNulty, PM Daily (New York, NY) - 7-6-2 Walcott
    Wilbur Wood, sporting editor, New York Sun - 11-4 Walcott
    Grantland Rice, New York Sun - 11-4 Walcott
    Lester Bromberg, New York World Telegram - 10-5 Walcott
    Joe Williams, New York World Telegram - Walcott
    Max Case, New York Journal-American - Walcott
    Frank Graham, New York Journal-American - Walcott
    Lewis Burton, New York Journal-American - Walcott
    Ted Meier, Associated Press - 11-3-1 Walcott
    Hugh S. Fullerton, Associated Press - Walcott. "He scored the harder punches."
    Murray Rose, Associated Press - 9-5-1 Walcott
    Ted Smits, Associated Press - Walcott
    Gayle Talbot, Associated Press - 10-4-1 Walcott
    Leo H. Peterson, sporting editor, United Press - 7-5-3 Walcott
    Oscar Fraley, United Press - 7-6-2 Walcott
    Bob Considine, International News Service - 8-7 Walcott
    Davis J. Walsh, International News Service - 8-3-4 Walcott
    Harry Grayson, Newspaper Enterprise Association - 8-4-3 Walcott
    John Carmichael, sporting editor, Chicago Daily News - 11-4 Walcott (according to AP) or 8-4-3 Walcott (according to UP)
    Gene Kessler, Chicago Times - 7-6-2 Walcott
    Clair Kelley, Chicago Herald-American - 9-3-3 Walcott
    Gerry Hern, Boston Post - 7-7-1 (according to AP and Al Buck of NY Post) or 7-6-2 Walcott (according to UP)
    Ed Delaney, Philadelphia Daily News - Walcott
    Matt Ring, Philadelphia Evening Bulletin - 8-7 Walcott
    Whitey Lewis, Cleveland News - 8-7 Walcott
    Franklin Lewis, Cleveland Press - Walcott
    Shirley Povich, Washington Post - Walcott
    Bob Addie, Washinton Times-Herald - 9-3-3 Walcott
    Hank O'Donnell, Waterbury Republican - 12-2-1 Walcott
    Bill Demuth, Wheeling Intelligencer - 8-5-2 Walcott
    Jean Kroutchtain, AFP (French News Agency) - 7-5-3 Walcott
    Bob Murphy, Detroit Evening Times, 8-5-2 Walcott





    W. J. McGoogan, St. Louis Post-Dispatch (St. Louis, MO) - 7-7-1
    Gerry Hern, Boston Post, draw 7-7-1



    Tom Meany, PM, Louis, 9-6
    Joe Gootter, Paterson Evening News, Louis 9-6
    Dan Parker, N.Y. Daily Mirror, Louis, 9-6
    Al Buck, N.Y. Post, Louis, 8-5-2
    Cliff Keane, Boston Globe, Louis 8-5-2
    Red Smith, N.Y. Herald Tribune, Louis 8-7
    Jesse Abramson, N.Y. Herald Tribune, Louis 8-7
    Joseph C. Nichols, N.Y. Times, Louis, 8-7
    James Dawson, New York Times, Louis, 8-7
    Joe Trimble, New York News, Louis, 7-6-2
    Jim Jennings, N.Y. Daily Mirror, Louis, 7-6-2
    Joe Lee, Brooklyn Eagle (Brooklyn, NY) - 8-7 Louis (score provided by United Press)
    Anthony Marenghi, Newark Star-Ledger (Newark, NJ) - 7-6-2 Louis
    Lawton Carver, sporting editor, International News Service - 7-5-3 Louis
    Nat Fleischer, The Ring (New York, NY) - 8-6-1 Louis
    George Edmond, St. Paul Pioneer Press - 8-5-2 Louis
    Robert Bre, La Presse (Paris, France) - 7-5-3 Louis
    Bill Corum, New York Journal-American - 8-7 Louis
    John Lardner, North American Newspaper Alliance - Louis
    Jack Conway, Boston American - Louis
    Wendell Smith, sporting editor, The Pittsburgh Courier (Pittsburgh, PA) - 7-6-2 Louis
    Wilfrid Smith, Chicago Daily Tribube (Chicago, IL) - 8-6-1 Louis (score provided by United Press)
    Clif Keane, The Boston Daily Globe (Boston, MA) - 8-5-2 Louis


    The Final Vote Tally is

    Walcott - 60
    Louis - 22


    Winner by decisive margin (4 rounds or greater)


    Winner by 10 Rounds – Walcott (2) Louis (0)

    Winner by 9 Rounds – Walcott (0) Louis (0)

    Winner by 8 Rounds – Walcott (2) Louis (0)

    Winner by 7 Rounds – Walcott (3) Louis (0)

    Winner by 6 Rounds – Walcott (4) Louis (0)

    Winner by 5 Rounds – Walcott (3) Louis (0)

    Winner by 4 Rounds - Walcott (3) Louis (0)




    The AP (Murray Rose) had a wider card, 9-5-1 Walcott.

    Walcott: 1,2,4,7,8,11,12,13, 14
    Louis: 3,6,9,10, 15
    Even: 5




    Fans Displeased by Fight Decision

    Though Joe Louis retained his world heavyweight championship last night by defeating Joe Walcott in Madison Square Garden, the decision went to the wrong man, in the judgment of hundreds of indignant callers who flooded THE NEW YORK TIMES' switchboard immediately after the result was announced.



    Shirley Povich, Washington Post—“They staged the great Madison Square Garden holdup at 11:20 o’clock Friday night when they held up the hand of Joe Louis and brazenly proclaimed him ‘still champion of the world. “Victim of the boldest robbery in modern heavyweight annals was 33-year-old Jersey Joe Walcott, the 10 to 1 shot, who locked Louis convincingly in 15 rounds and then was frisked of the title by the stunning decision of the judges.”

    Pete Wilson, British Sportswriter- "the greatest robbery since Col. Blood stole the crown jewels."


    Joe Williams, New York World Telegram—“An unprecedented thing happened in Madison Square Garden last night. Joe Louis actually surrendered the heavyweight championship of the world—but two men representing the State Boxing Commission in the capacity of judges refused to permit him to go through with it.”

    John Webster, Philadelphia Inquirer—“Battered, bloody Joe Louis retained the world’s heavyweight championship in 15 rounds through the medium of the most unfair decision rendered in our times. Following closely upon the Fox-LaMotta whatwasit, the decision should be enough to kill boxing in New York State.”

    Al Abrams, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette sports editor: “The heavyweight championship crown Joe Louis had worn proudly for more than 10 years, rocked, tottered and reeled all over Madison Square Garden Friday night, but it was finally righted atop his bloodied and bowed head by one of the rawest decisions ever perpetuated in a championship battle.

    “Joe was whipped, and whipped soundly, by Jersey Joe Walcott….”

    Lewis Burton, New York Journal-American: “It was the first tie in the modern history of the prize ring that the heavyweight titleholder had kept his throne through a decision which the vast majority of observers, expert and inexpert alike, considered entirely unjust.”

    Al Buck, New York Post: “The old champion just hasn’t got it any more and the only reason he still owns the title is that the boxing commission’s scoring rules backfired. He was licked by Jersey Joe Walcott in the Garden last night and he knew it and so did Jersey Joe. Only the judges had Louis ahead on rounds, which was possible [SIC?].”

    Wilbur Wood, sports editor, N.Y. Sun: “Jersey Joe Walcott did everything possible to wrest the world heavyweight boxing title from Joe Louis…except to win the votes of the two judges….Louis himself thought the title was gone.”
     
    70sFan865 likes this.
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Clarence Henry, Bob Baker, Nino Valdes, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore any one of these men could have done the trick in 1953 when Walcott was near 40 years old. Walcott's reign was going to end sooner than later.
     
    djanders likes this.
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    No I don't see that. Jim Norris and the IBC was all about making the best matches happen and usually gave the best NBA rated challengers title shots.