If we switch Dempsey and Marciano, does anything interesting pop up?

He made money by just showing up at functions, or even refereeing bouts.

As far as Louis goes, yes he did the box the best, and I rate him #2 all-time BUT guys like Harry Thomas, Jack Roper, Al McCoy, Gus Dorazio and Tony Musto, were not rated when Louis fought them.

Harry Thomas never was rated.

Jack Roper was rated for only 2 months in his career and that was during 1939 (February and September) and his highest rating was #10. He wasn't rated when Louis fought him.

Al McCoy was 11-11-1 in his last 23 bouts before he fought Louis and wasn't rated since early in 1940.

Gus Dorazio was rated for 18 months between 1939 to 1944 BUT was not rated when he fought Louis.

Tony Musto was rated for a total of 6 months from 1941 to 1943, never higher then #8. He only won 2 of his last 6 bouts and only 5 of his last 14 bouts before he fought Louis. He wasn't rated when Louis fought him.

 

Henry. As you have all this good info on the monthly ratings--Discounting the ratings of 1942 to 1945 when Louis was inactive, how many #1 contenders did Louis fail to fight. How long were they top-rated. I think the only two top rated contenders he failed to fight were most likely Bivins and Ray. How long were they at the top while Louis was actually fighting? Were there others?

 

I'll check it out later, as my 2 year old granddaughter just cam ehere and she wants to go swimming.

 

Fogey, I just have to take the time and thank you for your input. You have done some very, very good posting on these subjects, and especially your frequent submitting of primary reports are hugely apprecieted. Quality.

And while I'm at it, I'd like to thank Henry as well for his stats on ranked opposition. Good stuff.

Well, that should do for brown nosing for one day. :good

 

I think that this is a major flaw in the case for the fight being a fix.

I have said previously that I am concerned by the lack of contemporary evidence for an irregular betting patter which can usualy be detected around such fights e.g. Gans McGovern.

The bottom line however is that I don't think that I could give this fight a certificate of authenticity based on what I have.

 

Fair enough, Janitor.

 

Thank you and I agree with you that Henry brings a great deal to the board and I hope he keeps up his excellent posting.

 

That is another reason, along with trying to ban boxing, for putting out a fix story. To most people, it makes Dempsey look bad and certainly makes boxing look bad.

 

I thank you both. I would LOVE to do more on this site BUT I have a pretty busy schedule. I am the President & Historian of both the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame & the New Jersey Diamond Gloves. I also work as one of the editors on BoxRec. I am also a Ring Announcer and I have a show this coming Friday night and next Thursday as well. I also Ring Announce most of the Amateur Boxing shows in New Jersey, including the Golden Gloves, Diamond Gloves and the LBC State Champioships. I have Ring Announced well over 400 Amateur Boxing Shows and I never charged a cent. In between I will be attending the meeting for Ring #8 this Tuesday, and I will be running the meeting this Thursday for the NJ Boxing Hall of Fame.

I am also the President of the North Jersey Majors Met League, which is one of the top Amateur baseball leagues in the Northeast. Finally, I am also a Deacon in my Church where I am also the Treasurer.

I also answer sport questions on many web sites, including one or two of my own. I'll stop right their, BUT there is a lot more.

Here's all the #1 contenders when Louis was the Champion:

Max Schmeling 1936 to 8/1938
Max Baer 9/1938
Lou Nova 1939
Tony Galento 10 or 11/1939 to 3/1940
Arturo Godoy 4/1940 to 7 or 8/1940
Bob Pastor 8 or 9/1940 to 10 or 11/1940
Max Baer 10 or 11/1940 to Mid 1941
Lou Nova Mid 1941 to 11/1941
Billy Conn 12/1941 to 1942
Bob Pastor 1942 to 1/1943
Jimmy Bivins 2/1943 to Mid 1944
Lee Q. Murray Mid 1944 to 9/1944
Joe Baksi 10/1944 to 11/1944
Tami Mauriello 12/1944
Melio Bettina 1/1945
Jimmy Bivins 2/1945
Melio Bettina 3/1945
Jimmy Bivins 4/1945 to 5 or 6/1945
Joe Baksi 6 or 7/1945 to 8/1945
Tami Mauriello 9/1945 to 11/1945
Billy Conn 12/1945 to 1/1946
Tami Mauriello 2/1946
Billy Conn 3/1946 to 7,8 or 9/1946
Tami Mauriello 8, 9 or10/1946 to 12/1946
Elmer Ray 1/1947
Tami Mauriello 2/1947 to 4/1947
Jersey Joe Walcott 5/1947 to 3/1949
Ezzard Charles 4/1949

As you can see, the only boxers listed that Louis didn't fight was when he was in the service.

Note: Elmer Ray was rated #2 until he lost to Charles in mid 1948 during the period when Walcott was at #1. He had a winning streak of 50 in a row with 44 KO's before losing a close decision to Walcott, who he beat on another close decision.

He would win another 7 bouts in a row, scoring 6 KO's before being stopped by Charles when he was 38 years old.

 

Old Fogster I know this is off topic....but do you still have that read on the legitimacy of Walcott KO 3 Harold Johnson

 

I don't have any "read" on it, if you mean an article. I do remember Jack Drees, who did the Wednesday Night Fights back in the fifties, commenting that Johnson was hurt against Walcott when he turned his back during the middle of a body attack and took a left hook against the spine--sort of like what happened to Schmeling against Louis.

I must add that this is MY fifty plus year old memory and might be as shaky as anyone elses.

 

Thanks for the good info on Louis, Henry.

 

different eras make different fighters,do u think dempsey.jeffries,sullivan would fight the same in the 1950 s 60s 80,s-no they would not and with personal trainers and weekly steroid shots nowdays they would be a ripped out 20 pounds heavier