If we switch Dempsey and Marciano, does anything interesting pop up?

he did not have better technique. And dempsey was not wreckless. Watch the dempsey vs Tate footage on youtube, hardly wreckless. Dempsey was "wreckless" against willard because after the first kd the fight was essentially over. Plus the film speed is genrally poor in dempseys era. Dempsey, despite what modern historians say, was a very talented and had underated boxing skills.

I never said if Marciano was the same. I said what if he fought under the conditions dempsey came from. Remember Dempsey was over 6 ft tall, yet was underfed so he weigned as much as a middleweight. Clearly he fought in tough times and if rocky did the same (fighting as a teen ) then i really doubt hed be undefated

 

it amazes me how dempsey is discredited as a crude brawler. He had great speed, very good defense, knew how to slip punches well , circled his opponents looking for openings.He in a way revolutionised hw boxing and was in that sense the first modern champion

 

Fair enough comments, and from McGrain below. I just don't think Dempsey was on the same level as Marciano. Although I do rate Dempsey, I don't rate Willard as much as some.

Here's one; If Willard was around nowadays would be as successful as Wlad/Vitali/other massive Eastern Europeans with the diet and training they have now?

 

I do agree that Dempsey was the first 'modern swarmer'

 

In terms of guys I have actually seen footage of

 

Willard was not as good as the klit brothers. He was crude and he disliked fighting anyway. However he was very powerful (killed a man in the ring) and could absorb a heck lot of punishment. Very strong chin and hands but he was past his best when he met dempsey.

If willard was around today with a modern trained who could improve his boxing skills? Well he wouldnt be great or anything and would likely lose to klit brothers but may well win a belt(if ruiz could win a belt, anyone could lol)

 

Whats so funny? Old Louis was 6'2 215lb, thats a 30lb weight advantage on Dempsey. He also had a tremendous powerful jab, when did dempsey ever face a jab like that? Louis also pocessed elegant boxing skills, along with a powerful left hook, combined with mastery of ring experience. I do favor dempsey, but louis win isnt out of the question. Afterall, Fat Willie Meehan went 2-1 vs dempsey

 

Well, would Marciano do the same to Willard? Let me rephrase that, would Dempsey beat Charles and Walcott as convincingly as Marciano, or would he be unable to find the K.O that The Rock required to win? Let me rephrase THAT; would Dempsey get to the stage where he COULD pull that sort of punch off, as there's no doubt that he had the power to stop both those guys, regardless of how great they both were (Charles considerably moreso IMO)

 

clearly you did not read the report i posted which showed that dempsey deserved a decision despite fighting with an injured hand in a 4 round fight. although OLD FOGEY did say he saw a nws paper report which said meehan won but i have never seen that, i only posted the one i have

 

And I don't think the Old Louis possesed elegant boxing skills by that point......taking the Marciano fight as a gauge he had slipped drastically in every department.

I must stress, IN MY OPINION

 

:good

Dempsey is one of the top 4 punchers all time in my view. He has the fastest feet out of any ATG puncher, and only Tyson in my opinion had the faster hands.

 

It's hard to say. Being malnourished, he would have probably have to adjust his style a little. He'd have to punch less and conserve energy more. In this regard, the Marciano that fought Walcott would be more successful than the version that later fought Charles and Moore.



Marciano had an absolute iron will; if Dempsey could fight in that state, I think Rocky could too.

He'd bear Willard, but nowhere near as quickly as Dempsey did it. He'd have to wear Willard down by going to the body. In that heat, his conditioning (assuming by then he was eating properly) would be a massive asset.

Willard was a tough ******* though, so I don't see an early end here. Perhaps Marciano could wear him down as the fight went on, but otherwise based on workrate and desire, he'd outpoint Willard.

Probably not. Dempsey had a more exciting style and had more charisma. He had that aura that Tyson had. There wasn't much to report on Rocky's life outside the ring.

I'm not sure. It would depend on how thoroughly he cleaned out the division. I don't see him taking three years layoffs, though.

Rocky feared nobody, so I think it's possible. (I'm not suggesting Dempsey feared Greb, by the way) It depends though...did Greb ever make noise about challenging for Dempsey's title? I don't know the intricacies about Dempsey's career. (yet)

If he became a viable challenger for the title it's probable, but I don't see Marciano especially being concerned about Greb otherwise.

Over 10 rounds Tuney has a decent shot. One must remember though that although Rocky started slowly against Charles and a few others, it was primarily rust that caused this.

He wasn't by nature a slow starter, and I think he'd adjust his workrate for the 10 round distance. I'm not sure Tunney has the strength to keep Marciano off him for prolonged periods.

Outside of Tunney, I can't see a real danger man for Marciano. Firpo was big but pretty raw and Carpentier, who gave Dempsey a decent fight for a while, again probably just doesn't have the grit to last the distance.

He always wanted to be famous, so I think it's reasonable to suggest he would still have boxed. He wasn't a good baseball player (his first love) and there just weren't that many other sports around those days.


If not boxing I think he'd try his hand at stage acting or something. He had a burning desire to be more than just an average person.

 

I don't see Marciano losing to anyone during Dempsey's reign, until age catches up with him. Greb would get beat down by Rocky, no offense to him but Marciano is too great of a HW.

Marciano-Wills would be the premier matchup if the fight came off. Wills is better than anyone Marciano beat, and is by far the best big guy he ever faced. But Marcianos right hand would land eventually and would probably KO Wills in the mid to late rounds. Marciano blasts out Firpo without much trouble, knocks out Willard late, but his test would be Tunney. Marcianos style takes a lot out of you and longevity was never going to be his strong point, he probably would of retired before he fought Tunney. But assuming the fight comes off, prime Marciano knocks him out but if it's the older one he most likely loses a decision.

Dempsey beats everyone that Marciano beat as well. Dempsey struggled sometimes against smaller fighters sometimes where he didn't have a big speed edge, so maybe a Walcott or LaStarza could steal a win. Dempsey would beat them more often than not, though. Charles wasn't durable enough imo to beat Dempsey, Moore would have his moments but lose a clear decision. Dempsey-Louis would of been murder.