If Wilder actually beats or KOs Fury it will go down as the greatest HW redemption of all times

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Zulu King, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. UFC2020

    UFC2020 Active Member Full Member

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    He is at his athletic best when he comes in light at 210. He has good stamina and is able to throw a lot of punches with speed. Last time he was very lethargic coming in at his career heaviest
     
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  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Stamina wasn't an issue in the last fight. Him being outmuscled was. Can't see how less muscle would help that.

    Do you seriously think the Wilder from the first fight would have done better?
     
  3. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    He's been shown over two fights to be nowhere near Fury's level... Unless he's learned to box in the meantime and actually shows real skill to win, his only path to victory is a lucky KO - and sorry, no, I won't respect that.

    It's not about Whyte in particular, I mentioned him only because he's a better fighter than anyone Wilder has actually beaten AND he's ducked him for ages.

    The more general point is the important one - Wilder needs to step up and build a serious resume to redeem his years of holding a belt hostage and knocking out bums (and it doesn't matter one bit if he holds any belts or not whilst doing so).

    But... We all know Wilder isn't suddenly going to go out and take difficult fights, so this argument is academic.
     
  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1-there is no such thing as a lucky KO. To land a knockout punch requires timing, speed, accuracy, and developing the form for the punch through hours and hours in the gym. To land a knockout punch on a world class athlete whose also significantly heavier AND has elusive footwork and skill makes it even more difficult. Dismissing the quality of the win by calling it "luck" is both illogical and factually incorrect.

    2-whyte is not a better boxer than Luis Ortiz, who Wilder beat twice. So no, Whyte would not be the best boxer he faced.

    3-Fury and Ortiz were both difficult fights and Wilder got in the ring with both of them 2x going on 3 for Fury. Again, factually incorrect and illogical to claim he doesn't take difficult fights.
     
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  5. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    1. To land it properly and knock Fury out is something Wilder would probably manage about one fight in ten - he's landed fairly clean a few times and not managed it yet, and Fury seems to have his number which will make it even less likely for him to land it... Doing something highly unlikely is, by definition, flukey.

    2. Whytes resume is lightyears ahead of Ortiz - Ortiz looks a better boxer, but he's not proven himself against the caliber of fighters Whyte has... There's no evidence to support the idea that Ortiz is anything beyond a gatekeeper level fighter.

    3. Ortiz proved a difficult fight for Wilder, but that doesn't necessarily make Ortiz a difficult fight, unless you presuppose that one of the two is a serious fighter which neither man's resume provides evidence for.
    Wilders first fight against Fury was against a rusty and unfit Fury, Deontay was gifted an undeserved draw on the cards, but he only took that fight because of Fury's condition... The rematch seems to have been because his fragile pride couldn't abide everyone knowing he'd been beaten and as a result being desperate to set the record straight (which backfired horribly).
     
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  6. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    Reminds me of Bonecrusher Smith stopping Tim Witherspoon in 1 after losing a lopsided decision.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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  7. gdm

    gdm Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    It would still be 2-1 Fury . Greatest redemption of all time?? NO.
     
  8. Finkel

    Finkel Active Member Full Member

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    That not a bad call. The circumstances have an odd duality too. Tim Witherspoon would have been looking toward getting a shot at Mike Tyson (see AJ). Instead he gets forced into a rematch he didn't really need nor want.
    That was very suspect by Don King.
     
  9. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    Just realized I said Lance. Meant Tim of course.
     
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  10. recycling

    recycling Active Member Full Member

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    He would be redeemed. I just don’t see it happening. Fury is too big to knock out. Imo
     
  11. UFC2020

    UFC2020 Active Member Full Member

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    He will throw more at a lighter weight and move around better with no compromise on punching better. The more he throws the better his chances
     
  12. MyDentedHead

    MyDentedHead Active Member banned Full Member

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    last fight he the right hand connected several times it didn't do ****.
     
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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He's not going to outmanouver Fury so his movement won't matter, and even att his lightest in the first fight Fury beat him to the punch. He didn't land anything of significance until the 9th round. A 210 Wilder won't hold up for longer than four rounds.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  14. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very physically stay humble Full Member

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    I've been rewatching a few Ortiz fights lately, and while he does a few things very well he also needs to be in his comfort zone or he starts to look very ragged and vulnerable (a bit like Wlad if Wlad was built like Sam Peter and only fought bums). He's terrible at closing down mobile, longer outside fighters; his feet are too slow, he can't effectively close down the ring, and he lacks world class control of distance which either results in him lunging with his shots or getting too close and smothering them. And mentally he only seems capable of throwing heavy one twos of varying description. He can't combo punch with anything longer than that. He's also very limited creatively which means if you can read his rhythm and attack patterns he becomes quite useless.

    Where Ortiz shines is against static or come forward fighters that he doesn't need to work to close down. His punch selection and accuracy here can be very good, and he hits with sufficient wallop to hurt almost anyone. He can also occasionally throw decent counters, though he's a bit hit and miss (pardon the pun) in this regard. Is he better than Whyte? No, his resume doesn't suggest that. Is he as good as Whyte? Possibly, though again his resume lets him down here. A fight between the two would be competitive, though I suspect Whyte's superior jab would break Ortiz down or lead to him coming apart stylistically allowing Whyte to land something big on him when he leaves himself exposed trying to land a shot of his own.
     
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  15. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 Full Member

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    His Stamina would get drained in no time with Fury over him in the clinches at that Weight.