Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Wig, Mar 27, 2023.
What does that do for the legacies of
Wig, you have just shattered their respective matrixes
It doesn't really do anything for the legacies of Joyce, Parker and Ruiz ? As none of them have fought either Wilder or Usyk.
It obviously massively improves Wilder's but the biggest beneficiary would be Fury given that he's knocked Wilder out twice.
Unless your a casual, it does nothing. We all know boxing isnt as simple as A beats B, B beats C so A must beat C
Wilder and Fury would see a considerable boost. Wilder entirely deservedly, Fury less so because stylistically Wilder may match up well with Usyk and Fury not. Wilder would benefit more proportionately because his record is lacking big results beyond 30-0 Ortiz and 27-0 Fury draw.
Joyce's stock would go down because he got schooled by Usyk in the 2013 WSB. But only slightly because it's a decade on now and Joyce is a different fighter, plus it's 12 rounds in the pros rather than 5.
Ruiz and Parker would take hits due to the Joshua connection. AJ's stock would fall because Wilder would have been able to do something on one attempt that Joshua couldn't do in two, so it stands to reason that those who lost to Joshua would be even less well regarded.
Wilder wouldn't get in the ring with let alone beat Usyk.
At the moment Wilder legacy is that he up there with one of worst half a dozen HW champs of all time
Their legacy is not complete yet. But I'll have a good laugh if Wilder beats Usyk, as the ball lickers of the latter will struggle to talk about the way they do it now. It's a fight that must happen, but will it?
Man, why are you always calling him "USKY"?
In late 2019/early 2020 you rated Wilder above titlist Parker and Povetkin (one of the best heavies to never win a title).
On accomplishment, Wilder is top 6 among heavyweight titlists/champions in the last 20 years.
Not in terms of quality opposition. Beating opponent s Chisora would beat is not great achievement.
Up there with Stiverne and Martin for one of the worst champions.
I found it hard to imagine Wilder getting in the ring with Ruiz, nevermind Usyk.
"Beating opponent s Chisora would beat is not a great achievement"
You mean like Takam and Pulev? And don't try to claim that Pulev got robbed because most fans thought Chisora was robbed against Whyte 1 and Parker 1.
By your own admission Wilder was above Parker and Povetkin in 2019/2020, so even you didn't rate him badly back then. You only started omitting Wilder from the top 10's when Fury beat him, in order to artificially inflate Joshua.
All of the other heavyweight champions since Lewis's final fight: J. Ruiz, Byrd, Jones, Sanders, Brewster, V. Klitschko, Rahman, Valuev, Liakhovich, W. Klitschko, Maskaev, Briggs, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Peter, Haye, Stiverne, Fury, Martin, Joshua, Parker, A. Ruiz, Usyk
Take Haye for example: does his reign consisting of Valuev, Harrison and J. Ruiz supersede Wilder's of Stiverne 1, Molina, Duhaupas, Szpilka, Arreola, Washington, Stiverne 2, Ortiz 1, Fury 1 (draw), Breazeale and Ortiz 2?
I think not.
How about "ATG" Vitali's: Peter, Gomez, Arreola, Kevin, Sosnowski, Briggs, Solis, Adamek, Chisora, Charr
Quality of opposition beaten is only one metric. A very important one for sure but there are several others, hence Vitali is regarded by many as a great despite a title reign which is probably worse in terms of quality of opposition than Wilder's.
He'll get in the ring x3 with Fury (who'd schooled Wlad and demolished Wilder going into the trilogy) but wouldn't dare to fight Ruiz...
He only got involved with Fury because he thought he was finished and would be easy. Wilder’s record isn’t that of someone desperate to take on everyone. He’s no Usyk.
Fury was close to even odds with Wilder, he was seen as a harder assignment than anyone in the division at the time barring Joshua.
In the rematch Fury was the No.1 ranked heavyweight in the world. Wilder was under no obligation to rematch him after escaping with a draw first time.
In the trilogy Wilder was going in having previously been demolished. He could have backed out of the fight, many would have. But there isn't any quit in his character, it's all revealed in the ring. Whereas Joshua would rather find a way out when he's in serious trouble, or go to a points decision rather than risk getting KO'd by a cruiser.
When Wilder fought Ortiz he was 38 and 30-0, not 43 with 2 KO defeats as he was when he fought Ruiz (after Ruiz had tried his best to avoid him, looking to sign with Triller and fight a kickboxer called Spong in Mexico instead).
Fury was mandatory which lead the Wilder rematch. Wilder had to fight Fury, if not lose his belt. This was after WBC wrongly stripped Whyte of mandatory and was extremely quick to act to force the mandatory.