If Wlad beats Haye he's an ATG

HOF--yes
ATG--no

 

I don't see why people see Haye as a big challenge to Vlad. Haye has a quick right hand and is a sharp puncher, but he is small compared to huge Vlad and any clean punch landed by Vlad will hurt and possibly stop Haye. I would be surprised if Haye takes one clean right hand from Vlad and is still standing there fighting effectively. If Vlad is careful and uses his jab for the first two round, he can win this fight in the 3rd or 4th just by dropping in a few right hands.

 

Vlad can beat Haye with his left alone, much less if he uses his right hand!!!!!!! This fight will be a mismatch!!!!!!! Vlad by very vicious knockout!!!!!!!

 

WTF are you talking about?

The Ring belt is MEANINGLESS. It's just one more in a long line of MEANINGLESS trinkets.

Wlad has never held the Linear title.

NEVER...

 

How big of a list is your ATG???? I figure if your not top 10 in your natural weight class, you don't deserve mention.

In terms of head to head match ups, and pure natural talent maybe he's one of the best ever(thats a debate in itself mind you). But if you think his legacy ranks anywhere near Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, or Ali you are sad and insane.:bart

 

Has anyone ever thought that the reason why the division appears soooooooo bad is because the Klitschkos are sooooooo good.

Vitali was cut vs a 36 y/o Lewis who had just disposed of a 35 y/o Tyson. Vitali was dominating Lewis before the cornrows swelled him up and the OH R opened him up.
Wlad was destroyed by Sanders who was ducked by EVERY HW titlist including Lewis Holy and Tyson.

Vitali dominated Sanders.

Vitali would have destroyed Rahman had the fight gone down, but Wlad destroyed Rock while Vitali was recovering.

The torch has been passed.

Ali to Holmes, Holmes to Tyson, Tyson to Holy, Holy to Lewis, Lewis to K2.

 

Which great fighters has Wlad beaten?

An ATG fighter is defined by quality of opposition, not title defences. Certainly, not title defences in an incredibly and famously week era. His main rivals for the last 5-6 years have been shocking.

He's beaten about 7 world champs in his time. Two, Rahman and Mercer were several years past their prime, while Peter, Byrd, Chagaev and Ibragimov are to short, poorly conditioned (part from Byrd) and lacking in skill.

Its a list of average fighters, that it takes no exceptional ability to beat. James Toney, David Haye and Adamek have become top HWs - the divison is a joke.

Is Haye going to weigh 210 lbs on the night - he constitutes a great HW win in modern boxng? Wlad isn't an ATG fighter, because the standard of fighters beaten has been average.

I don't rate his safety first, tedious boxing skills either. Its nothing exceptional on a technical level. I don't see much greatness in him. Lets go count Calzaghe and Ottke's title defences and claim they are ATG fighters. Takes alot more than gimmies, KFC munchers and journeyman be an ATG.

 

Chitownfightfan.

I think you're right, the Klitschkos are certainly underrated by a large number of 'fans'. No, they're not exactly exciting, but they're efficient, and if that works, if that wins them fights, why should they change?

The only sad point, is that throughout history, us boxing enthusiasts are denied the defining fights from those who take on the mantel from the previous dominant heavyweights, be it retirement, age kicks in and they fight on too long or just plain annoying politics.

Still, if Haye beats Wladimir, Wladimir will be 'over the hill' and 'the weaker of the two' if Wladimir wins 'Haye's record was nothing anyway' or a 'blown up cruiser'

Neither has much to win (apart from a serious purse) both have a great deal to lose.

On the bright side, heavyweight boxing, you would think, can't carry on being boring for much longer can it?

Thank god for the lower divisions! They've been superb for over a decade, since the Tysons and Lewis' of the world retired.

 

Please stop.

The Klitschkos are ****...

 

how do you work that out?

was hart vs root for the linear title?

or how about robinson vs bell? was that to create a new lineage at welterweight?

who decides the lineal title? lineage is a concept, there is no "linear title" you simply follow on from a particular championship bout which was sanctioned counting only victories in the ring for the belt changing hands.

 

Who have been the best cruiserweight of the 2000s? Thats probably a more appropriate question, the standard has been higher. Pure CWs are not often included in p4p lists, why should the sub standard HW division today?

Facts are no way Chagaev, Ibragimov, Byrd or Peter are champs in another era. Peter has never beaten a world champ at HW. Ibragimov a grand total of 2, a 47 year old Holyfield in a close decision and Briggs - one of the worst champs of last 20 years. Chagaev has managed 2, Byrd barely any.

Not a great list of opponents. Basically, old man Holyfield and paunchy Ruiz have made the careers of most modern HWs. Taking a straight forward route to a title and beating poor and ageing champs - isn't great.

Vitali has managed 5 champs since winning the title and he lost twice. Title defences are there, but how many protected fighters have built up good looking records? They haven't beaten any great or many even difficult to beat opponents.

 

atsch

 

He's the Ring Magazine Champ and that's all that matters anymore anyway. He already beat Peter TWICE, who held the WBC in btween those beatings. He already beat Chagaev for the WBA, which Chagaev got for easily outpointing Valuev. He's the man at Heavyweight & you'll just have to deal with that. :deal

BTW, Wladimir is already an ATG win or lose, and failure is not an option.

 

Peter outboxed Toney TWICE

Even knocked fatso down with a jab along the way. Chagaev is a good solid Heavy & Sultan is a great counterpuncher. All would be good contenders and possibly champs in other eras.

 

Either Klitschko is a tough fight FOR ANY HEAVYWEIGHT IN HISTORY. That's something you're going to have to come to terms with.