If you are an RJJ fan or an RJJ critic, have a look...

Like the one below? Where I flayed your arguments alive? :yep

I have never debated Marciano with you. And you mentioned the Lounge to cuchulain earlier - if that's where you think it happened you are definitely wrong. I don't post there.

 

Whatever man but at least you got me laughin

 

Duran was one of the best technicians in the history of the sport at his best, made even more formidable by his aggression and fury, always controlled. However, he was the definition of a passion fighter. Take away his passion and you take away his effectiveness. Whether because he was simply un-motivated for one of his non-title bouts, out of shape, or simply couldn't get up for a certain fight, his performance strengthened and suffered depending on his passion.

If you want to look at the facts, none of this started even becoming evident until he had been in the ring 12 years with around 80 or so fights under his belt, fighting above his best weight. Post-Leonard II he went into a spiral psychologically, which resulted in a few lackluster performances prior to getting his feet beneath him and getting back on track against Cuevas and Moore. By this time though he was clearly past his prime and had started to become less and less consistent as the years passed, more due to his age and weight difficulties than lack of motivation. The fact that he was still able to hold his own with the likes of Hagler in '83, and years later upset Barkley shows his technical ability, even at that stage against that level of larger opponent. And it once again showed that when his passion shone through, his performance did.

Anyone who claims he's overrated just doesn't understand his career path and/or ability, which was more than enough to rate him among the greats.

 

:good

 

:good

 

great thread:deal

 

You make some valid points...However greatness is to me about doing it all the time...Its about bring your lunch box and going to work...Even on the days that you dont want to...Im not one that faults a fighter for losing fights, and when they are losing to elite guys its almost a no lose situation...Now with that bring said, i dont have a problem with Duran, I think that he is one of the greatest fighters to ever live, what Im saying is that he is overrated when people say that he is greater then fighters that actaully did what he tried and failed to do...Most fighters that are in the top 10 to 20 dominated THIER weight class I think what sets them apart is what they did after leaving that weight and moving up. Exculding the heavyweights. That to me is why duran doesnt rank as high in a p4p sence...Now Jones doesnt rank as high for me because he never stayed at a weight long enough to dominate it, he didnt clean out any weight class. While I think of Jones and the most talented fighter to ever live, he left far too much unsaid in the RING. At the end of the day you have to BEAT fighers to be seen as GREATS and for me Duran and Jones just didnt do it. Leonard did,
Robinson did, Ali did, Armstrong did. You talk about what Duran did in almost beatting hagler, well Leonard did beat hagler, and did so after everyone thought his career was over and after a long lay off. Those fighters have always been underrated because of thier styles while fighters like Duran, Tito, have always been over rated. Having an aggressive style doesnt make you great, it only makes you aggressive. Beatting great fighters is what makes you great and for me once again Duran and Jones didnt do enough of that to be in the top 10 p4p.

I would say that Duran is some were around 12 or 13 and Jones would make my mid 20's. But that is without sitting down and thinking about it

 

This one is a much closer fight so watch very carefully. I gave Ali five rounds at the most but one of those rounds was the last. Plus the fella only weighed 188 lbs. I say RJJ and Marciano would have both beat Ali comfortably that night although this Jones could sure absorb a jab and a few power punches as well

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Norton won the first part handily but here are the last rounds of Ali Norton III

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Marciano, Ali, Norton...... WTF? :huh

Relevance to the thread .....?

 

While i agree with your general point I really fail to see what robinson losing to basilio and fullmer when he was miles past his prime has got to do with a h2h match up. Robinson was not close to the same fighter when he came back in 1955 after his 3 year break

Turpin he did not take seriously and was to busy messing about on his european tour but is a legimate loss as was during the period when robinson was at his best at the weight (though slightly past prime IMO, don't think he was ever prime when he was actively campaiging at middle). His absolute peak at middle for me is either la motta 6 or turpin 2

 

Aww I understand but the other day I dared make a stand and Ranked RJJ above Ali and Duran and the crap hit the fan and I argued back like a man.:shock: Sorry Ali fans