If you criticize Tunney for not facing any BIG heavyweights

Marciano had no trouble stopping 215lbs Joe Louis. While he was past his prime, he was still a big contender beating other contenders. Tunney has no such win.
On top of that, Marciano was extremely dominant, faced everyone and knocked everyone out. Tunney only faced a handful of heavyweights.

Another interesting, overlooked question is: Do you criticize Sonny Liston for not facing any BIG heavyweights? The only decent big heavy he fought was Williams, he only managed to beat one contender during his entire career. Liston often escapes this criticism because people have the idea of a big ugly bear being a 6'6 240lbs guy while he was only as big as Chris Byrd, who is widely seen as undersized today.

 

MARCIANO BEAT BIG MEN LOUIS AND LAYNE but you also got to remember that most of the Big men of that time were cut down by Charles,Walcott and Moore and Lastarza before they got to be top 5 , contenders, Bob Baker,Nino Valdes were beaten by Moore and Lastarza beat 6'2 1/2 Dan Bucceroni and Charles beat Billy Gillian who was 6"2 and he also beat Layne and 6"3 Coley Wallace. I think the point is Marciano beat the BEST men of his time, they Best who beat the Bigger men and when Rocky did fight bigger men like Layne and Louis, he scored devastating KO's. In fact some of the Bigger men Cleveland Big Cat Williams 6'3,Bob Baker 6'2 were KO'd by by 174lb Bob Satterfield who also dropped and dominated Valdez 6"3 (who would have been victom # 50 if He had won) and Satterfield was KO'd IN 2 by Charles. So if you look at the record clearly it was the more skilled guys who scored impressive wins over the big men. Hurricane Jackson was a 6"3 contender but he was KO'd by Valdez who lost to Moore and Satterfield and Jackson also lost to light heavy Jimmy Slade who lost to Moore, Bucceroni and Harold Johnson. I think this era of the mid 50's and before had a freakish bunch of small sized but superior Heavyweights, Marciano, Walcott, Charles,Moore,Lastarza,Satterfield who could compete and wipe out a lot of the big guys in any era

 

Tunney's resume is the least discussed in boxing I would say

 

I agree with this. Sonnys jab marciano holds a win over a # 1 contender who weighed 215lb. despite being past his prime, this win over louis could be very equivalent to if say tunney had taken on george godfrey and beat him, but he ducked godfrey. I Beleve Old louis was actually better than firpo, morris, and old willard. so the quality of that win counts for more than some of dempseys top big opponents.




sonnys jab, why do you single out marciano when hes fought 8 men over 200lb, 5 men over 215lb while james jeffries never fought one man over 200lb.





pontius, liston also knocked out 6'3 214lb Nino Valdez who earlier in the year was ranked # 2 and had knocked out 3 contenders.

 

I would consider even a 34 year old 6'3 212lb nino valdez decent, especially if the year before he was flattening top contenders like harold carter, wayne bethea, mike dejohn. Power is the last thing to leave a fighter, and valdez still had plenty of it not to mention a ramroid for a jab. he was dangerous.



liston beat alot of other men over 200lb. henry clark, gerad zhech, chuck wepner, wayne bethea, amos lincoln.......and many more

 

Yeah, of Liston's 55 pro fights or whatever it was, I counted roughly 28 men who were under 200Lbs, and quite a few more who just barely made that weight. Liston can't be credited for fighting monsters per say.

 

Fact Remains outside of a very fat tom heeney, tunney did not take on one man over 200lb. we can speculate what he would have done to 3rd teir big heavyweights, but we dont know. he certainly never proved he could take on a big man calibre of george godfrey

 

Liston fought 24 men who weighed over 200lb. this is impressive considering his era. He also beat two of the most dangerous big skilled fighters of his era nino valdez and cleveland williams.

 

Chris byrd cannot be compared with liston really,he continually ATE his way up and used weights to maintain that unnatural weight,He claimed it was hard work to keep his weight up.
Men like liston,tyson and co were genuine solid 210/217 guys,byrd was a blown up boxer,who could have fought many divisions below heavy,tyson and liston could never have fought below heavy. (well,maybe for their first few years as toddlers.)

 

Only in your mind. Byrd said he left training camp at 203lbs and then bulked, not ate, himself up to 212lbs.

Take a look at these photos, you will find that Byrd does not carry excess fat or anything (you can see his abs), he looks like a normal big 210 pound guy. Compare it to Liston, they're very similar:

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Wow! I never knew Tunney was that good.

 

I have a ring magazine article shortly before bryd-holyfield where bryd states "I naturally weigh 195lb, I have to eat myself up to 210lb."


Sonny Liston is naturally much bigger than chris bryd, and if you compare their measurements, liston takes the cake by a mile.




Chris,


believe it or not, I think liston was in much better shape pre 1962 than he was in that picture where he was old, overweight, and out of shape vs ali.


heres liston vs dejohn 1959

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