If you criticize Tunney for not facing any BIG heavyweights

Byrd had to bulk up to get to 210 lb. Liston was naturally that weight. Besides Liston would utterly beat the crap out of guys like Wlad and ike who beat Byrd

 

I would not criticise either of them really.

You just fight the best whether they are big or small and in some eras they will be small.

 

A minor point but Gus Ruhlin was over 200 for both of his fights with Jeffries.

 

I think the issue with Tunney as a heavyweight is not the size of the heavyweights he beat, but the quality of the heavyweights other than Dempsey. Many of his best opponents, Gibbons, Carpentier, Levinsky, and Greb, while considered heavyweight contenders, were still men of a size for lighter divisions. Of the true heavies, Risko was green, Weinert very erratic, Heeney and Spalla ordinary, and the Renault fight seems to have been a farce in which both men were DQ'd for not trying. The problem with not fighting Wills and Godfrey and Sharkey is not mainly that they were bigger, but that they would have given Tunney a heavyweight resume to match his p4p resume.

 

I dont rate tunney highly because he didn't fight enough depth at heavyweight. He retired very early in his reign at still a young age with alot to prove.....he retired with top challengers in the division like max schmeling, larry gaines, jack sharkey, or george godfrey. If he had fought godfrey, sharker, gains instead of a fat weak challenger like tom heeney, he would rate slightly higher on my list.

If you look at the harry greb fights vs tunney, you will see tunney outweighed greb by nearly 15lb each time they fought yet greb managed 2 wins.

perhaps, but in tunneys case he spent the majority of his career fighting much much smaller guys, older guys, never fought one man weighing over 203lb, and he avoided figthing big punchers and black fighters. tunneys heavweight career reminds me of michael spinx's.

 

your right. I think in my original post i meant to say 205lb.

 

yes quite possibly. Although he did seem to lack inside fighting skills, and we dont know how he would handle a fighter taller, larger than him with a longer reach, where he would actually have to get on the inside.

 

Well he made Vitali Klitschko quit and hurt Tua with bodyshots. Byrd may punch like a girl, but it was Liston who looked like a little ***** when he quit twice against Ali, who, judging from the fact that he easily landed on anyone, punched as hard as a girl himself. :good

 

When it comes to Tunney, lets get a few things straight.

The majority of the evidence points to Wills not being the one to take a fight with Tunney, and I don't blame him (Wills) for it. He had done much more than enough to earn a crack at the Dempsey title and shouldn't have been matched with every up and coming younger guy until one of them beat him. Not fair for Wills, not fair for Tunney that he did not fight Wills. If Tunney had fought Wills in 1925 or 1926 it would have just been an old Wills. Uzcadan and Sharkey are not ring immortals for beating Wills shortly there after. By the time Tunney became champ Wills was done. Sad, but true. That was Dempsey's debt, not Tunney's.

Next Jack Sharkey.

Sharkey was beat by Dempsey. Tunney than beat Dempsey again. If that is not enough, he would go on to draw with Heeney. Neither guy one that fight.
He then lost to Risko (who lost to Heeney the previous year and lost to Tunney himself)

Sharkey had not won a fight out of his last three around the time he would have met Gene Tunney. That does not scream mandatory defense. Sharkey blew it. Sad, but true.

George Godfrey.

Godfrey was beat by Sharkey. If you can't argue Sharkey you can't really argue Godfrey. He was also beat by Risko and really had no wins of true substance except for Renault whom he had already lost to a couple of times and Larry Gains (who weighed less in that fight than most of Jim Jeffries opponents, since Jeffries is always brought up as fighting nothing but Super Middleweights even in threads that have nothing to do with him).

Sorry, but Wills was past it, Godfrey never did enough, and Sharkey is no better of a defense than Heeney. Probably worse in 1928. Of all the people mentioned who deserved a title shot, nobody deserved it as much as Heeney.