If you criticize Tunney for not facing any BIG heavyweights

Do they believe this avoidance to be out of fear of loosing or political expediency?

 

suzie, please tell my where u read Tunney ducked Gains? Please

 

:good:good:good

Anyone who thinks Chris Byrd is the same size as Sonny Liston is insane.

 

Yeah, it's really insane to think that a 6'0 204-212lbs guy is as big as a 6'1 212lbs guy when both have a ripped 6 pack and little fat.

 

but who'd naturally bigger? Byrd had to bulk up to get there even though he was not fat, but Liston was just naturally that big

 

The difference in size between Byrd and Liston is evident in their measurements.

They may be the same height/weight, but size is somewhat independent of those two factors, especially in the case of Liston.

Check out the tale of the tape for both fighters.

 

EDIT - WOW that copy/paste job did not work, just skip to the bottom and read the analysis of numbers instead


To go with the above post-

This was the tale of the tape from one of the Byrd-W.Klitschko fights. Keep in mind that this is a 35 year old Chris Byrd, fully mature and about as big as he ever got/will get.

Byrd Klitschko
Joe ByrdTRAINEREmanuel Steward213WEIGHT24174"REACH80"18"NECK19"45"CHEST (NORMAL)47"47"CHEST (EXPANDED)49"17"BICEPS18"16"FOREARMS18"7"WRIST8"12"FIST12"35"WAIST34"25"THIGH27"16"CALF17"

Here's some measurements of Sonny Liston. Got them off the IBHOF site, not sure about the date taken. (sorry about the ugly font)

[SIZE=-1]Height
Weight
Reach
Chest/Norm.
Chest/Exp.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Waist
Biceps
Neck
Wrist
Calf
Ankle
Thigh
Fist
Forearm


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]6-1
214
84
44
46½
33
16½
17½
8½
16
12
25½
15
14½[/SIZE]

Liston has the edge in - Height, weight, and thigh size.

Liston has a HUGE advantage in reach, along with wrist and fist size.

Byrd has the advantage in waist D ) chest expanded/normal, biceps, and neck.

Byrd's biggest advantage is forearm size.

The two men were measured to have the same calf size.

Keeping in mind that Byrd used weightlifting techniques to purposefully gain weight, I think Liston was naturally a bigger man. These bulked-up measurements of Byrd are somewhat inconclusive, but if we take them at face value, Byrd has a slight advantage in waist, biceps, and neck, and chest normal/expanded, and a pretty clear forearm size advantage.

Liston, on the other hand, has a gargantuan reach advantage, a big wrist size advantage, HUGE fists (3" bigger than Klitschko's, even!) In fact, although the IBHOF TOT page only lists champinons through 90s Frank Bruno, Liston's reach is only matched twice (Lennox Lewis, at 6'5", and Buster Douglas at 6'4"), and exceeded once, by 6'5 1/2" Primo Carnera, who had a shocking 85.5" reach. Truly a HUGE reach for a 6'1" man!

 

DMT......godfrey or gains?

 

Gains.

 

The whole reach thing is awfully deceptive. They measure wingspan, not actual reach. A lot of it has to do with the shoulders. It doesn't take height into account (which Liston has little of for a heavyweight).

Cleveland Williams, at 6'3 80 inch reach has a longer functional reach than Liston's 84 inch. I can provide pictures if you like.

 

So, you're saying Liston was massive across the shoulders ?

 

The only thing I "criticize" Tunney for is not facing many HWs, period. He was a great light HW, but at HW, his record is pretty limited, with wins over a faded Dempsey really his only claim to fame in the division.

 

It is deceptive, but it's undeniable that an advantage of that much in the reach category means something in the "overall fighter size" aspect of things.

If Liston's reach was exaggerated because of extraordinarily broad shoulders, that proves he was a much bigger man then Byrd, right? :good

Liston is taller than Byrd, too.

 

So is weight.

For example Tommy Hearns and Barbados Joe Walcott were the same weight yet there is a foot of diference.