If you have Ray Robinson as P4P number 1 please explain....

Because prime for prime he'd comprehensively beat Armstrong at any weight from 135-147 and is a more complete fighter and better boxer. People of the time were more impressed with Robinson than Armstrong

 

I don't have him #1, I have him #3 just ahead of Armstrong in 4.

The premise for ranking him there is that I far he's more complete fighter. That's about it. I have no qualms with Armstrong anywhere from 1-4 though.

 

I see it as a matter of longevity verses intensity. Robinson began his career with very impressive wins... Angott. Servo. Zivic. He also was extraordinarily competetive a quarter century later.

Armstrong's whirlwind campaign that got him those three titles is an accomplishment that I'm not so sure ANYONE can top.

Robinson's longevity was something that kept him talked about for a long time. Ali's emphasis on him in the early/mid sixties also served as a reminder. Armstrong was quite literarlly a storm that wreaked havoc and then weakened. But all such storms are brief.

Still great was Hank, but the losses to Ambers and Zivic were surprising at the time, and have unfortunately knocked him down a notch in the eyes of some observers. Ambers and Zivic were both great fighters who would probably school many modern greats in the news today. Serious guys, those two... Zivic on his good days would change your life with the kind of beatings he dished out.

Meanwhile, Robinson was clever enough to avoid certain fighters that we know would have caused him real problems.

 

Armstrong could have fought Burley, Holman Williams and Cocoa Kid himself

 

The only thing Armstrong has on Robinson is the 3 weight thing but he also has that on every other fighter in history (holding 3 titles simultaneously, not just winning 3 titles)

Robinson has a better record, had more tools inside the ring, looked better on film, beat more world champions & seemed more consistent in his younger - prime days.
Throw in better longevity & the fact that of the 2 main weight classes SRR competed in (WW & MWT), he is consensus no1 at one of those & never outside the top 4 in the other - no1 on a lot of MW lists, in fact he won the official poll for both classes...... I really think Robinson, everything considered, should be ranked over Henry.

Robinson was the greatest p4p fighter that ever lived.... oh yes, its true.

 

Yeah? I've never heard anything about that. Could you elaborate? Sounds interesting.

The reason to have Robinson ahead is mainly because of he was so extremely good for such a long time. He hardly have any losses to opponents he had no business losing to, which is extremely impressive considering how many fights he had and how long he was active. He was well managed, though.

He was also fantastically complete, hardly had any weaknesses to exploit.

 

You also have to remember Robinson was robbed of the chance to become LW champ when his fight with Angott was set over the LW limit. He was also unable to get his WW shot for ages

Could Robinson have held 2 titles simultanously? Angott he beat, Cochrane he'd beat emphatically, the only question mark is if a 145b Robinson could beat Zale the same way he managed against Lamotta

Robinson did beat very good lightweight, welterweight and middleweight champions (past/future) in the space of 15months, in the shape of Angott/Zivic/Lamotta

 

To be fair to Hank, his rematch loss to Ambers was quite controversial, and he'd just beaten him earlier that year. The losses to Zivic had a lot more to do with what a dirty ******* Zivic was than Hank being unable to rise to the occasion. What other way could you stop him but dig your thumbs into his eyes until he went damn near blind? That's another reason I think Saddler is a bad matchup for Armstrong, the cheap, dirty tactics he implied.

 

Armstrong's management wasn't Armstrong. Robinson was essentially his own manager. In other words, I'd give Armstrong the nod in terms of willingness to fight anyone. Robinson less so.

 

I have a hard time ranking Robinson over Greb, Walker and Barney Ross myself.

Never mind Armstrong.