If you read the IBF rules, there is NO controversy. Bute won.

I have to say that I'm fascinated by the power of denial. You can reason, cite the rules, bring forth new information and even provide actual footage of the incident in question. But if people don't want to believe, they simply will not.

I think in this case it has something to do with people's inability to hold two ideas in their head without conflating them. On the one hand, you have a seemingly strange incident, where the trailing fighter knocks down the hometown hero with seconds to go. The hometown kid beats the count and wins.

At the same time, you've got a hometown ref who let the fight finish without calling the KO.

So people make the leap that the ref MUST be corrupt. This, despite not a shred of real evidence to support their claim--in fact, with actual real evidence supporting every action he took in the final seconds.

But it doesn't matter. Kinda like the OJ trial. Remember how the defense team got the jury to buy into the fact that Mark Fermin (A cop with involvement in the case) was racist? This was a brilliant psychological ploy by the defense. See, they realized that if the jury believed he was racist, they would conclude that OJ must be innocent. It was somehow beyond the imagination of the jury that both statements could be true: Fermin the racist and OJ the guilty murderer. But they conflated the two incidents.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm just amazed at how unsubstantiated opinion can never really be remedied with facts. Someone will always be there to reignite the flame of ignorance. No matter what you say, present, show or demonstrate. To these people, perception is reality.

 

Did you even see the fight. Nothing you just said is true. :huh

1- Bute was up at the count of 6-7.

2- Bute was up on his feet when the ref stopped the count to tell Andrade to go back to the neutral corner.

2- Andrade was out of his corner almost half way across the ring.

If we're gonna have a debate at least use accurate facts.

 

Marlon B. Fair B. Right decided that Bute wasn't Knocked Out, with a name like that you can't do wrong.

Just live with it ! :hi:

 

No they did not. Showtime showed the wide angle but they zoomed on Bute as soon as he got up so the Showtime viewers didn't get to see that Andrade was almost halfway across the ring when the ref stopped the count.

The Canadian PPV showed it. The Showtime broadcast didn't.

 

I just got a better look at that youtube clip.

.....I initially thought that Andrade did'nt leave the neutral corner.
....but its evident that he did.

What I'm wondering is why he left that neutral corner and started to take steps toward center ring.

Here's the time sequence on the youtube clip.....

at the 1:13 mark, Wright pointed, sending Andrade to the Neutral corner.

As Andrade goes the neutral corner from the 1:13 mark to about the 1:19 mark, it looks like Wright has'nt even bothered starting a count on Bute, in fact at the 1:19 with Andrade already at the Neutral corner, Wright (suspicious to me)taker a couple steps toward Andrade pointing at him, then he comes back to start his count on Bute.

Then the next thing you know Andrade walks out of the Neutral corner.....why the ref took his eye away from the count and Bute getting up is beyond me, but he turns and sees that Andrade has started walking toward center ring, stops his count on Bute and sends Andrade back to the Neutral corner.


The Andrade camp has appealed, but under these circumstances, a Bute victory is likely to stand. Andrade for whatever reason walked away from the neutral corner, and seeing that Wright was already slow to start his initial count on Bute, it was just the opening he needed to buy further time.


Except for taking so long to initially start the count, the ref rightfully or not, did it by the book, I stand corrected on that!




On my own opinion of the rules, I find it boneheaded that a ref stop a count to direct a fighter back to a neutral corner when he's not there.
You would think that a ref should pay full attention to the fallen fighter and his condition whether he can continue or not.......
The rules imo should be changed to where after the ref determines that a fallen fighter can continue, he makes sure that the fighter who scored the KO is at the neutral corner before he directs the fighters to continue.

Andrade getting out of the Neutral corner can be a situation where he's curious as to how badly hurt Bute is, and whether the ref is going to stop the fight.
Andrade might have felt that the fight was going to be stopped, thus why he walked away from the neutral corner.

In any case, I would wish the rules be changed so that a ref does'nt have to stop in the middle of a count to direct a fighter to a neutral corner, and have a controversy like this.

 

People also don't talk about the fact Andrade's trainer could get suspended or sanctioned for assaulting the ref after the fight.

Can you imagine the outrage that would follow such a ruling by the boxing commission?

:scaredas:

 

He should get fined and suspended.....I dont care if the ref was wrong or not, you dont assault an official like that.
Right or wrong, it just sets a bad precedent.
That trainer will be fined and suspended, and rightfully.

 

Remember Mosley-Mayorga? Mosely walks to the center of the ring after knocking down Ricardo, and is not instructed to go back to the neutral corner, and is therefore in a position to step foprward and connect with the left hook that ends the fight with one second left in the 12th....

And, in some quarters, the official who tolled the count (forget who it was right now), was roundly criticized for allowing this to happen.

Hence the need for some sort of neutral corner rule...otherwise you're gonna get a lot of fights looking like Dempsey-Firpo.:bbb

In this case, let's use your interperatation...Andrade is already near the center of the ring by the time the official turns around and admonishes him. Give him a couple more seconds, and he's within a few feet of Bute once the count is completed.

Now, because I think Andrade, while certainly an aggressive fighter, wouldn't be the type to pull a Mike Tyson and try to punch around the referee...but I'm certain other fighters might...

And you can imagine the controversy that would result if that were the case.

What would the official do in this case?

Send Andrade all the way back to the neutral coner and then signal the fight to resume?

Seems a bit counter-intuitive to me, to be honest.

So, I think that the rule that's in place probably is the best one that is currently available.

(Incidentally, I can a case certainly could have been made for stopping that fight at any point from about 30 seconds remaining to the actual point of the knockdown, and I certainly think a rematch is warrented and welcome.

I also think a rematch will almost certainly happen, given that this fight seems to have generated quite a bit of interest in the worldwide boxing community as a result of what happened...and interest (plus exciting fighters) equals money.)

 

:good

 

Like listening to two educated summations in court. But it's dancin' on the head of a pin for me.

The way Bute went down, it shouldda been stopped right then. He was finished. Supported by the ropes, seein' bluebirds, doesn't mean ya can defend yourself.

This thread would be a far more somber if Andrade hit that helpless shell again.

 

I see your point on the Mosely-Mayorga issue......but that situation was strictly the refs fault for signaling the fight to continue without checking to see if Mosely was at the neutral corner.
The ref did'nt follow protocol in that situation.
.....that referee strictly focused on the condition of Mayorga, but then made a very bad mistake of signaling the fight to continue without checking to see where Mosely was at.

Imo, to keep the rules on this issue how they are now, you're really inviting or at least open the door for mischiev by any referee that might have a bias for one fighter or the other.

By the existing rule, a referee can stall for time when sending a fighter to the neutral corner in several ways......

1 He takes his focus from the fallen fighter and waits till the other fighter is at the neutral corner. During this time, a ref then might have trouble picking up the time from the timekeeper, as happened in this fight with Bute-Andrade.

2. The existing rules allow that for during an actual count, the referee can turn away from the hurt fighter, to check to see if the other is at the neutral corner, thus taking his focus away from what should be the most important issue at hand at the moment......and thats making sure and analyzing if the fallen fighter is fit to continue.
When you're continually looking back to check if a fighter is still in the neutral corner, its detracting from the referee's judgement of analyzing the condition of the hurt fighter.

Even with the current rules, I've found that most referee's after initially sending a fighter to a neutral corner, really dont pay much attention to him until he's made a decision whether or not the fight is going to continue anyways. (as ref Richard Steele did with Chavez-Taylor)

......I've often seen fighters move themselves from the neutral corner, but very rarely do you see a ref like Wright, take his focus away from the most important task at hand (analyzing the hurt fighter) and leaving the hurt fighter to reprimand the fighter out of the neutral corner.

Its a safety issue here friends.....ref Wright turned his back on Bute to go reprimand Andrade, during this time Bute already was up.....when Wright turned his back on Bute to check on Andrade, what if Bute who was badly wobbling and hurt, would have fell face first to the canvas upon getting up????

You see what I mean? Wright who turned his back on Bute to check on Andrade, could have prevented in that situation further injury in a situation like that by being there strictly focused on the fallen fighter's safety.


I'm dead serious here Drew. A rule change should be made for the benefit of the fighters.
Not only does it create less temptation for bias and dishonesty for a ref to stall a count by stalling to redirect a fighter back to a neutral corner, but once the ref has initially pointed to a fighter to go to a neutral corner, for the sake and safety of the fighters, his sole purpose and concentration should be for the fallen fighters safety and to determine if indeed he can continue to fight.

With the current rules that give a ref the option to look back at a fighter to see if he's at the neutral corner, you not only invite mischiev from that ref, but it also takes away from an honest referee's focus to determine the fallen fighters condition.

I'm adamant about this. The rules should be changed.
After a knockdown, the ref points the standing fighter to the neutral corner, right after, his sole focus is giving the fallen fighter a count and analyzing the signs of what his condition is.
If the ref determines that the fallen fighter can continue, before he signals for the fight to continue, he quickly checks that the other fighter is at the neutral corner.....if he is, signal the fight to continue......if he's not, redirect that fighter to the neutral corner and then signal for the fight to continue.

Its safe and simple, and there is less oportunity for a referee to mischiev.

Drew, you have'nt givin me a single reason why the current way is better than my proposed way......you mentioned something about a fighter going behind a refs back or shoulder to quickly continue his assault......if he did that before the ref signaled the fight to resume, thats grounds for disqualification is'nt it?

 

Watch the video i posted on the 2nd page. Bute got up at 9. He counted 6 twice also.

 

I have a few problems. And i agree. However the Bute nuthuggers will not change their tune.

1 : Count was 24 seconds
2: instead of telling Andrade once, it was 3 times.
3: even look at Mayweather, Hatton also, he was never in his corner more then Andrade was or thousands of other fights.

Andrade got robbed here guys. :deal

 

There's no contradiction. The ref has to be concerned with rules but at the same time use his own judgement especially in this type of situations. When Graham Earl's corner threw in the towel against Katsidis the referee threw it back because he thought Earl still had a little left. When Roger Mayweather stepped in the ring the referee didn't DQ Floyd and it would have been wrong because Floyd did nothing other than getting hit by an intentional low blow and a rabbit punch. These two refs made calls without going by the book and they were right.

Bute wasn't really "up" he had his back against the ringpost he wasn't just standing on his two feet. The ref stepped towards him which is something I must have seen like once or twice and I don't even remember it. So we have a BS knockdown, a long count and a step towards the fighter who just got up (he had no problem with Bute relying on the corner post to stay up). That's too many things when you're a canadian referee in a fight involving a canadian-based fighter in Canada.

 

You are ****ing blind !!!!
Can you spell OBVIOUS.
Like before the knock down you dumb ****.
And I am being polite.