If you read the IBF rules, there is NO controversy. Bute won.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008.


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  1. TheH1tMan

    TheH1tMan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    There is no controversy.

    Andrade won by KO12 and is new IBF world champion. There is no controversy.

    For as long as the belt is in Bute's possession may it stink him up. Shameful.

    The ref not only took the win from librado in the end, he stopped the fight and talked to Andrade every time Bute was hurt or every time Andrade landed hard punches throughout the fight. Scandalous. We all know it. Please don't try to spin this any further. This has been achieved under "biggest scandal of the decade". and now I don't want to discuss this again until I hear that Bute gave Andrade the belt or at the very least a rematch in California.
     
    TheH1tMan, Oct 25, 2008
    TheH1tMan, Oct 25, 2008
    #16
  2. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bute UD Andrade is the official result, and the actual result. A rematch is in order, and will likely take place during the course of the next twelve months.
     
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    #17
  3. Gatekeeper78

    Gatekeeper78 Active Member Full Member

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    So the count was controversial. I wached the last seconds on you tube. Bute had his hands down on a few ocasions, and when he got knocked down. He couldnt defend himself, the ref letting the fight go on was reckless. Bute was badly hurt, The ref should have stopped the fight because Bute could have been seriously injured or killed. The ref wanted him to win so badly that he didn't think of that fact. They both showed alot of heat but the ref needs to look out for the safty of the fighters.
     
    Gatekeeper78, Oct 25, 2008
    Gatekeeper78, Oct 25, 2008
    #18
  4. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Aug 12, 2007
    Can you read or write, or is someone typing this for you?

    If you can read, then check out the original post. There was a line in there that said:

    Its purpose was to avoid talking ****, but rather focusing on the facts - which I suggest we do.

    You say you don't want to discuss it. I agree. It's hard with no arguments. The one you bring up is that the referee appeared partial during the fight. Even if you buy it, did that affect the outcome? I bet my house you would not be so enraged if it wasn't for the final knock-down. After all, Bute did win most of the other rounds clearly and would have done so with or without the refs help.

    As regards the final round, the ref did exactly what he should have (read the original post). So no robbery there, either. So what exactly are you on about?
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #19
  5. rreed23

    rreed23 aka Gordon Gekko Full Member

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    Nov 23, 2007
    None of that matters, the fight should have been stopped
     
    rreed23, Oct 25, 2008
    rreed23, Oct 25, 2008
    #20
  6. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Aug 12, 2007
    If the point you're making is that the ref should have stopped the fight prior to the knockdown - because Bute could have been seriously injured or killed - I think it's a good one. However, we need to realise that it's tricky and he has to use his judgment. In the end, I believe, his judgment was proved correct. Bute survived and is not in intensive care. Had he decided to stop it then and hand Andrade the victory, I would not have had a problem with that, either.

    If the point you're making is that the ref should have stopped it after the count, then I don't buy it. There was no risk there for Bute as the moment he stands up (and the ref gets to eight in his count) the fight is over. The bell rings. Andrade can not punch. No further damage can be dealt. NO RISK for Bute.

    Given that the ref decided to let the fight continue, the final outcome was legit. In particular, the IBF rules do not require the fighter to have his hands up at all times.
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #21
  7. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If you're saying the fight should have been stopped, say, twenty seconds earlier, then you may have a case. A lot of referees might have done so. A lot of other refs might have let the fight continue.

    Ref's decision either way.
     
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    #22
  8. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Aug 12, 2007
    What makes you better suited to make that decision than the ref?

    Ok, I'm just bitching and I agree you have a point. The ref's job is to protect the fighters and you could argue he was risking Bute's life and health - which he should not have done. What gives this argument more weight is that in IBF championship bouts the corner can not throw in the towel...

    Ultimately, however, the ref was proved right. Bute survived and is alive, and so deserves the victory.
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #23
  9. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Great minds think alike...
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #24
  10. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: :good I think you're a faster typer than I am, though. Still, solid thread.

    How do you think the rematch (and there WILL be a rematch, without a doubt) plays out?
     
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    #25
  11. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think you're referring to the point where Bute lurched forward into the ropes out of an attempted clinch with out thirty seconds remaining. I would have called that a knockdown, personally.

    Does that alter the outcome of the fight? Maybe...maybe not. Maybe the 10-15 seconds of rest allow Bute the time needed to clear his head enough to become responsive when the official asks if he can continue.

    We'll never know.

    I think both sides agree that a rematch is needed, and would be welcome.
     
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    #26
  12. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Aug 12, 2007
    Nice try ;-)

    Let's see the video evidence.
    -Knockdown.

    -Turn on your stopwatch.

    -Allow for 8 or 9 seconds after Bute kisses the canvas.

    -He is standing with his back against the ropes (and possibly the corner post is supporting him as well). Is that 'hanging helplessly'. I'd say no. If you think otherwise - I can live with that and accept that view.

    Either way, at that point Andrade was not in the opposite corner (or at least I've seen no video evidence to the contrary). So the ref has to stop the count and order him to go back.

    After the twenty odd seconds pass - I think it's even harder to make the case that Bute is 'hanging helplessly'....
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #27
  13. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Thanks - input much appreciated.

    I think in the rematch, Bute does not get caught off guard and puts on a clinic for the entire 12 rounds. Which, I think, is a pity, because I really like Andrade and he did come really close this time...

    How about you, what do you reckon will happen?
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #28
  14. C.J.Rock

    C.J.Rock Active Member Full Member

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    When that crooked ref stopped the count it was at 8 he turned and shouted to Andrade to get back in the corner. He WAS in the corner all the time the tape proves it and Bute was STILL on his ass in lala land. It was a diabolical robbery that jerk gave Bute 23 seconds to recover.you forget how the ref let bute hold time and time again. you forget how the ref call a knockdown when bute PUSHED Andrade down. I heard this same ref has reffed the last 5 fights of bute we can see why cant we
     
    C.J.Rock, Oct 25, 2008
    C.J.Rock, Oct 25, 2008
    #29
  15. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Inclined to agree. Andrade might start a bit more quickly, but Bute's overall edge in skill and speed should probably see him through to a less controversial victory in another fast paced fight.

    In truth, i don't think either fighter is terribly hurt in terms of reputation, and the rematch should prove to be fairly lucrative...and that's good, because I like both fighters quite a bit.
     
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    #30
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