If you read the IBF rules, there is NO controversy. Bute won.

Go shag mrs. troll.

 

I read you, but disagree with how you interpret it.

The rule does not say - if either contestant cannot defend himself. If it did you'd be right.

The rule does say 'that to continue might subject him to serious injury'. How serious an injury he is likely to sustain is also a function of the amount of time left in the fight for the other fighter to inflict damage.

I wrote in some other place that I think that had the same situation happened in the middle of a round, the only way to proceed would have been to call the fight off. But here there was no risk (at least after the knockdown).

 

I think we see eye to eye on this issue. Thanks for posting here.

 

The rule is: if you're not lying on the mat or hanging on the ropes you are not down. If you are not down the ref has the discretion to stop the fight if you could come to harm. No risk of harm after the final bell. No reason to end the fight and not allow it to go to the scorecards.

 

Even if what you say were a fact, and that is debatable at best - see a few posts up the thread - it had no impact on the final result. Period.

 

There is no rule saying that the fighter has got to be fit to continue. He has to stand. The ref has to make the decision if he is likely to be harmed. If he decides that it is unlikely (e.g. because there is very little time left), he has no reason to stop it. Again, these are subtleties which turned out to be pretty important in the case of this fight.

 

I'm with you. But I also agree with Barber-ian. This thread is predominantly about who won the fight - i.e. the final knockdown and surrounding events.

I didn't call it 'Marlon Wright is an angel' for good reason. I'm not trying to argue that the ref behaved absolutely correctly for the duration of the fight. All I'm trying to argue is that his actions did not distort the final outcome. That is debatable or course - perhaps had he warned bute earlier on, deducted points for clinching and not ruled Andrade going down as a knock-down the outcome would have been a points victory for Andrade. Perhaps - but I find it unlikely. You're free to disagree though. Perhaps Andrade would have gotten to Bute earlier, if that was the case. We'll never know and I've always been in favour of a rematch.

 

You are talking about chaning the rules ;-) In fact, consciously or not, you've just suggested an extra one, which goes something like this:

The fighter shall be ruled down if, following a knock-down and becoming vertical - he cannot make x steps unaided in an orderly fashion.

Perhaps it's a good one. I don't think so. Why? Well, because you get into the debate of what walking in an orderly fashion is and how it differs from stumbling around. Now, THAT, is really very subjective. So I think it's a step in the wrong direction.

On the other stuff. The ref has a very good reason to be turning around. There is a rule in the book saying the other fighter should be in the neutral corner (and it's there for a good reason). The ref should be trying to make sure all the rules are obeyed, at all time. That's a reason for me.

Put differently, we know he has to deliver the eight count one way or the other. So why exactly has he got to stare at the injured fighter getting up? He might as well check on the other guy, while counting, check if he's standing in the right place and focus on his man getting up once he counts to eight and everything is ok in other places.

 

I think these were already answered so briefly.

A fighter cannot be saved by the bell - means, precisely, that the bell does not ring at 3:00. Once the bell rings, the fight is over and there is nothing more for the ref to do, other than announce the verdict (the only alternative would be for the fighter who happens to be down after 3:00 to loose the fight - not a good outcome either, right?)

On your final question. I don't think he should have been allowed to continue had this knockdown happened at, say, the beginning of the tenth. I would have thought the fight should be stopped. But it happened in the last few seconds of round twelve. It's a whole different world.