If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Bailey are you claiming Hatton didn't want a Mayweather fight? A fight everybody above and bellow welter strives for. Thats just crazy. You must of forgot Hatton was 100% self convinced he could beat Floyd. Why would he not want an opportunity to beat Floyd and earn the most money of his career?

And you would have to be in complete denial or just stupid to think the crown jewels wasn't a metaphor for a large sum of money.

 

For Loudon cont...

He said he wanted Jones and his team made an offer. If he didnt make an offer, you would have a point, but they did.

By your points then very few fighters have called anyone out

Said he wanted to fight Jones or more than one link.

You see Loudon, I have you clutching at straws and trying to knit pick as the evidence weighs against you

Links with dates of 2000, 2001 and 2002 and notes of offers and calling Jones out and you say its just talk

You will never accept that Jones decided against it. Of that Hopkins backed out because it breaks the myths that you like to live with

You tell me. I gave you links with 00, 01 and 02. You are the one that has decided that he must have been lying when given proof

Are you thick Loudon? WHAT MONEY DID THEY WANT? YOU DONT KNOW

Did the American fans know O Grant? C Woods, G Kelly, R Frazier?

Grant left his division for the one fight, like Joe agreed to do.

What can you not grasp there? Joe agreed for the Jones fight. Grant didnt go on a LHW campaign, he ditched a title for one fight. Calzaghe agreed to do that, that has not been a secret.

You sound like you think Grant went on a mad LHW campaign. He didnt, so you saying he made Jones a cake or whatever is another dose of selfpwning on your part because Grant didnt do anything Calzaghe said he wasnt willing to do

Completely different weight divisions. Calzaghe was known also, you just like to say he wasnt

Media called for that fight. Castillo was after Hatton because he couldnt make weight, got made a top 3 fighter by the ring, was put on the Hatton undercard.

How did Hatton mock Floyd? He answered a question and no more, so show me this mocking. They were different weight divisions.

Did Hatton call out Floyd after he fought Castillo? No, he answered a question

the commentator asked about Floyd and Hatton barely said anything other than the comment about more action in 4 rounds. Didnt mock Floyd, didnt say he wanted the fight and said little and that he would leave it at that.

You show me where he was mocking Floyd .

Watch from 3:27 for your further selfpwnage

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYd8lhxMWP8&feature=relmfu[/ame]

This is you speculating again Loudon. Where is the link and proof of that?

So was Calzaghe. Why are we going around in circles with this. He agreed to that and did when the fights could be made

Explain Loudon for the 100th time

Why would he drop a world title for a fight that may not happen? If the fight was agreed fine. But Jones changed his mind. Why lose money for a whim?



2000

2001

By 05 I doubt Calzaghe was worried about Hopkins or Jones as much as he had Lacy and Kessler around making noise

Depends who you ask.

His fights were shown in America

You best show this major mockery. I have put up the link and the time for you

Moved up for the one agreed fight, like Calzaghe agreed to. He didnt just move up and you are backpedalling again

What the fight where he held all night against 18 fight Urango or where many felt he lost to Collazo.

Show me this terrible mocking please

Dont know. I would say because of the crowd he had, he could get the fights, because he had a following, where ever the fights would have been.

It took him 44 fights to get Mayweather and Calzaghe 45 to get Hopkins

Took Hatton 47 fights to get Pac and Calzaghe 46 to get Jones, so cant see much difference in that

Calzaghe didnt want that one. That was for you boys. To lure Hopkins and it must have worked, beating the Ring #10 SMW before beating the Ring #1

then you also know Calzaghe was a big draw. How many went to see him fight Manfredo? More than Jones and Hopkins pulled in any of their big fights put together



Now Loudon lets work on facts we know

Calzaghe agreed to go to America if the fights with Hopkins or Jones could be made, so why deny this?

 

of course Calzaghe wanted to fight jones and b-hop. His plan worked perfectly. he waited for them to get old and then took them on. Pretty smart though as he would have been destroyed in the early 2000's if he fought them.

 

The fanboy denial is strong in this one :yep

 

What a load of ****. Joe said this Joe said that. He didn't face them till 2008. The proof of the pudding is written in the history books.

 

If you lose Joe, it's all your fault

 

So according to you Calzaghe did not have to clear out his division because Bute had just become a champion?
Please stop debating like a child

The above also applies to Calzaghe, but I notice you give him a pass for that.

There would of been no point for Bute to make any offers anyway, especially if he watched that vid were Calzaghe dismisses him outright.Bute is not a big enough name? Funny how that works, did the world know who Kabery Salem was when Calzaghe fought him?

1: Are you sure about that? Was Bute not working his way up the WBO rankings when Calzaghe was the champion? Do you think he was working his way up to fight Calzaghe or because he wasn't ready for him?
2: Source?

Team Calzaghe tried to make the fight in '99 and it was 'impossible' - Not Calzaghe's fault[/quote]
Source?

I only know what ****** said about Beyer's terms, ****** never mentioned the details of his own terms.

Bizarre

The fact that they were willing to return to the negotiating table shows how serious they were about making the fight.

They basically agreed on a date, which ****** later on changed to a date they could not make and this helps you how exactly? Even if they had agreed on everything that still does not mean the fight would of happened, think Glen Johnson

Anyway

Boxing: DEFENCE DILEMMA; Calzaghe's options for next fight looking limited.
No wonder Beyer's team were unhappy with Frank No us Money Warr.ens offers.

He agreed to fight in him in 98 and then pulled out claiming to be injured
He agreed to fight him in 99(on HBO) and then pulled out claiming to be injured
He was an available opponent after the Telesco fight fell through and he was ignored

What made guys like Sheika and Salem more acceptable than Vanderpool?
If Calzaghe went on to fight Dawson or Bute than fair enough, but the fact he ignored them speaks for itself.

You have asked a variation of this question before and my response was posted here:
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14088299&postcount=443

 

Bailey,

I said in 2001, all Joe did was mention Roy's name, and then did nothing else. In 2002, Frank had a few talks, but Joe was dismissed to fight Ruiz.

Again, you don't allow for circumstances in your arguments. The fight with DM, was to unify the whole division. Roy wanted that fight, but not bad enough to go to Germany, where he thought he may get robbed. Who could DM have fought at the time, who was better than Roy? What other fight out there was bigger?

Why do you keep insisting that DM wanted it? Roy was the man. He had 7 belts, to DM's 1. The onus was on DM to go to Roy. Did he go? NO! Stop saying he wanted the fight, when he wouldn't go. He was content doing what Joe was doing, which was defending his WBO belt at home for decent money.

You haven't read my previous post properly have you?

He had to take the gamble earlier than in 2002. He had to move up to Roy's weight earlier, and make a name for himself to stir up interest in the fight. Would it have been a gamble? Of course it would have! Roy was the unified 175 champion, and he had to give up his belts to challenge Ruiz, and then he had to fight a fired up determined Tarver to try and win them back.

In 2002, Joe wanted Roy for big money. And you're saying if he'd have been guaranteed that, he'd have taken the fight. But what you don't understand is, Joe wasn't known to American fans, and HBO wanted a Ruiz or Tarver fight instead. You just don't get it do you? At the time, Joe could never get that Guarantee, because Roy had better options. Now if Joe had've moved up earlier, then a fight may have been an attractive proposition to everyone.

You can't fight your whole career defending your WBO belt at home, and then suddenly expect to fight the best fighter in the world for big money. That's not the way things work. We're just going around in circles.

If the big money had've been there, Joe had've taken the fight.

But how could the big money have been there, when he'd done nothing on the world stage, and was unknown?

That's how simple it is. He should have done more earlier! He should have ditched his WBO belt in 1999/2000 and tried to pursue Roy by moving up the rankings. Yes, as mentioned, it would have been a risk, but Joe didn't want to take it.

I keep telling you what his choices were.

1. Take a gamble, move up, and try everything to get people interested in a fight.

2. Stay at 168, unify the division, and forget about Roy.

The longer he stayed at 168, the less chance he had of fighting Roy Jones.

Why can't you understand that?

Joe beat some good fighters at 168, but it wasn't enough to get people talking about a fight with Roy.

HBO's PPV audience didn't take notice of Joe until 2006.

Again, different set of circumstances. Joe was coming towards the end of his career.

Shows the mark of the man? Pity he didn't agree to in 1999.

Yes it was a cash out fight, and nothing more. It can't in anyway, be considered as a great win for Joe.

Why do you keep saying Roy knew him? It was his job to know him. HBO's PPV audience didn't! They'd hardly seen him fight!

Once again, break down the years, and explain to me in detail, how he chased the fight. You don't seem to know what chasing is. Frank making an enquiry, and Joe mentioning Roy's name, is not chasing Roy.

Roy fought at 175. Joe fought at 168. If he seriously wanted the fight, he'd have moved up earler. Woods was a mandatory. Joe could have been in Clinton's position. You can post up a thousand videos of Joe saying he wanted him. The fact that he refused to travel to America, or fight anybody at 175, proves to me just how serious he was.


You cannot fight the Veit's and Sobot's of the world at 168, and then say "Oh I'd love to fight Roy Jones, and if they give me huge money, I'd take the fight!" It's ****ing ******ed! Nobody was going to give him big money. Why? Because he'd been fighting the Veit's and Sobot's of the world! If you can't see that, you're stupid. Joe had to make himself an exciting proposition, and he didn't! And before you start banging on about Frazier etc, they were mandatories, and again, Joe could have been one of them.

You're either winding me up, and were laughing while you were typing this? Or you're absolutely stupid, and you need some help!

It wasn't the division he was interested in???

It was the division where ROY FOUGHT!!

Go to America for what?

To try and get a ****ing Roy Jones fight!

HBO, Roy and the U.S. fans didn't give two shits about Joe beating Brewer, Mitchell, Jiminez, Veit and Pudwell etc etc at 168 in Britain!

How thick are you?

The fight would never have been agreed ever! Who wanted to see that fight? Nobody!

Pawned again?

He fought there in 2008 when it was pointless. Joe even admitted as much himself.

What's this?

All this is, is COULD, and POSSIBLY etc. There's nothing here!

Roy was out of contract. So potentially a fight may have been on the horizon.

Frank says the winner COULD be looking at a shot next year.

What happened after these statements?


Roy re-signed with HBO, and went onto work with Murad again, a little later.

Also, all of this, was a year after he'd said "I'm not chasing Roy Jones, I don't want tough fights!" Ha!

 

Jones, who was 0-3 in his last 3 fights, was the opponent that Calzaghe wanted after he beat Lacy. It was ONLY after that fight fell apart, due to money issues, that he started to talk about Tarver again. (As if Tarver was going to leave HBO to fight on Showtime)


7 Mar 06
Boxing: Calzaghe closing on Jones bout in summer.

13 Mar 06
Boxing: Calzaghe ready for dream tilt at Jones.

16 Apr 06
Boxing: YOU'RE GREEDY, JUNIOR; Calzaghe hits out at legend Roy.

This content is protected

08

Boxing: Best of US line up for a shot at Calzaghe

 

This content is protected

Frankie Liles?
Chad Dawson?

22 4 08

Boxing: Best of US line up for a shot at Calzaghe.

 

He wanted Toney to drop from HW to smw? What a brave man Calzaghe is:good

Lets think about this.

I made a point that Calzaghe missed every decent southpaw around. Your whole response was basically one long exercise in misdirection.

-You make claims without providing sources
Bute said he wasn't ready?
Making a fight with Beyer(99) was impossible?

-Constantly trying to shift the focus off of Calzaghe and on to his opponents.
Calzaghe dismissed Bute outright and your repsonse is to say Bute never made any offers. What about Calzaghe's lack of offers?

-Selective use of dates
Lets just ignore the fact that Calzaghe could of fought Tarver in 08

-strange logic
Calzaghe beat Kessler who beat Beyer?
The reason why fighters don't like southpaws is because their punches come at angles they are not used to. How on earth is beating a orthodox fighter, who beat a southpaw, relevant in any way?


So I will ask the following questions:

1: Is Calzaghe's reason for refusing to fight Bute reasonable to you, and if yes why?
2: Do you think shot Jones was a better opponent that Tarver or Dawson?
3: Why was a fight with Liles not viable?

 

Joe C still had a fear of flying back then and Tarver did not want to go to Wales.

I would favor Tarver by a small margin, although I think Dawson would of clearly beaten Calzaghe

Tarver had picked up the IBF belt by the time Calzaghe had beaten Hopkins and was calling for a fight with Calzaghe. He could of fought Tarver instead of shot "steroids won't help you" Jones

 

You have no idea what you are talking about
Please stop boxrecing

 

The only fight that was never made because of failed negotiations was the Beyer fight.

This content is protected

Liles?
Liles was good and Calzaghe did not like to face good fighters:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Boxing...he.-a060444934

Tarver?
Could of fought him instead of Jones

Dawson?
Could of fought him after Kessler
Could of fought him instead of Jones

Bute?
Dismissed him outright. Bute is not a big name

Vanderpool?
Pulled out of two fights and basically ignored him after that

Beyer?
Beyer's teams claim warr.en was making lowball offers, which he is was, because Showtime were not interested in that fight
SKy could not have been very interested either, they would drop Calzaghe soon after

If you lose Joe, it's all your fault

So my point still stands he missed every decent southpaw in every division he faced