If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

You really aren't doing very well are you ko?

Lost the debate on the Calzaghe-Pavlik talks
Lost the debate about Calzaghe's supposed previous offers to Pavlik
Lost the debate on Calzaghe missing every single southpaw worth mentioning

 

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Boxing:+I'll+weigh+in+with+a+move+up+and+title,+says+Joe.-a0111955050

In other words if he moved up after Brewer 02-03 he would of automatically become the mandatory challenger for Daruisz's title.

Instead of doing that he stayed at smw and fought:
Miguel Angel Jimenez
Tocker Pudwill
Byron Mitchell

I think I can safely say that Dariusz would of been a tougher fight, but like I said before Calzaghe always took the path of least resistance.

 

Part 2.

I've answered these points about ten times now.

In 1999, he turned down the opportunity to go to America. He wasn't interested in Roy. He said he wasn't chasing him! THAT IS A FACT!

In 2000, Frank said, he MAY get an opportunity next year because Roy's contract with HBO has expired. Roy then re-signed shortly after.

In 2001, he mentioned Roy's name, and then he continued to fight at 168 in Britain.

In 2002, talks were held, but Roy dismissed him for Ruiz.

You're asking me if I'm thick? Ha! He mentioned his capabilities and said he'd want the crown jewels! He wasn't talking about £150! He was referring to a lot of money. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine!

How stupid are you? Really?

The circumstances were DIFFERENT!!

They didn't need to chase Roy, or to make an impression on the American public. Two of them were mandatories.

Joe wasn't a mandatory, because he fought in a different weight class. Therefore, he had to do things that guys like Clinton didn't.

How much did Grant get? Zod says $300,000

Stop pretending that Joe would have fought for that amount.

He did, I'll see if Zod has any links. Grant was a master baker, and he said "Let me fight you, and I'll bake you the most amazing cake you've ever seen, and I'll bake one for your dogs too."

Different weight divisions, but Bradley was well known. Again, Joe wasn't well known to American fight fans.

You think Ricky didn't want the fight with Castillo?

What the hell are you talking about?

"I think you've seen more action and value for money, in those four rounds, than what you've seen in Floyd's whole career!"

Ha! The crowd went mad when he said it! He knew exactly what he was saying!

Why are you trying to argue against me?

Floyd was outraged! He phoned up Leonard Ellerbe and went mad!

Stop being an idiot!

This is common knowledge. I've read it many times, and it was in Boxing Monthly just prior to their fight. How many fights did Ricky have at 147? People were asking the question afterwards, would the outcome have been different at 140? He knew Floyd wouldn't fight at 140. He made the sacrifice to make the fight. When you want a shot at the best fighter in the world, you have to give in to certain demands. It was fight Floyd at 147, or not at all. He took the risk for his dream fight! Floyd had recently fought Oscar at 154, so there was no way he was going down to 140 for Ricky.

In 1999, Joe wasn't interested.

In 2000, Frank says, Joe should now be looking to fight Roy.

In 2001, he hoped to go on and fight Roy.

We all know what he did after McIntyre. NOTHING!

I've explained this a million times!

If he gave up his belt, etc, etc, he MAY have had an opportunity to fight Roy for good money.

WITHOUT DROPPING HIS BELT, HE HAD NO REALISTIC CHANCE OF FIGHTING ROY FOR GOOD MONEY!!

At the end of 05, Roy was considered done. He'd gone 0-3 and was approaching 36.

Ask whoever you want. I've asked Mind Reader for his opinion.

He also had a stinker against Rick Thornberry before this fight.

So he'd given two bad performances, and then he beat Will McIntyre.

I've shown it you fool! You're trying to argue, when Floyd took the bait, and told Leonard Ellerbe to make the fight. Ha! How can you argue against a FACT!?

The U.S. fans warmed to his brawling style, and he came across well in interviews. He also brought a big army of fans with him, and people were interested in seeing him fight.

There's a huge difference!

Hatton fought peak versions of Floyd and Manny.

Hop was 43, and Roy was almost 40, and had been dismissed as a threat, on three seperate occasions by Joe.

Also, Ricky was 29 and 30, and Joe was 36.


Massive difference!

No Joe didn't want it, but Frank made him! Manfredo was known from The Contender, and Frank did it to gain more U.S. exposure. If he'd have gone to the States earlier, he wouldn't have needed to have fought a meaningless fight like that at 35!

Yes he was a draw at HOME!

So what? Joe was very popular at home, especially after Lacy.

Joe fought in bigger venues for his big fights, but Roy fought to a bigger audience globally.

Roy had his big fights in Vegas, in front of around 17,000 fans.

Joe fought at the Millenium stadium in front of 50,000.

The size of the venue is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

In the same year that Joe fought Kessler in front of 50,000, Oscar fought Floyd in front of around 16-17,000.

That was the biggest grossing fight of all time.

Joe's fight with Kessler, wouldn't have been a huge event outside of Europe.

Ha! Nobody ignores more facts than you!

Joe didn't want anything to do with Roy, when Roy was peak. But when Roy was 40 and washed up, he was happy to get on that plane, and take the fight.

What a guy!


Regards, Loudon.

 

What can anybody say about this?

There is literally no argument than can be made, against what you've posted.

Joe trying to backtrack on what he'd originally said about Roy, was cringeworthy.

"He's back! He's had three great wins!" I don't know how he said it with a straight face.

Embarrassing!

Regards, Loudon.

 

So why did your mother give him a blow job?

 

Zod, you're boring!

From the disingenuous and tedious nature of your posts, you're obviously not interested in any sort of objective discussion. You clearly have an agenda against Calzaghe, and no-one or nothing can convince you otherwise. It's sad that you're willing to invest so much of your own personal time trying to discredit someone you've never met to anonymous people over the internet , but it's your time not mine


Hence, I'm not going to waste any more time with you, we'll agree to disagree :good

 

Sorry for the late reply mate, it's been a busy week to say the least!

I got an iphone myself a couple of months ago, and now any bus or train journey, I end up on this site! If I'm at the pub and I'm bored I find myself flicking onto ESB!

Yeah I agree, Joe was injury prone and I fully understand Glen's frustration. I think Frank paid Glen £100'000 for a fight that never even happened!

True, but he was still strong at SMW until 2008. Though I would have liked to see him fight Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver in 2004

He's probably right. Roy was still a top fighter between 2003-2004, but not as dynamic as he once was

I think the quote you have in mind is from 2006. When Tarver mentioned fighting Joe in 2004, Joe was respectful of Tarver's abilities and seemed to welcome the possibility of facing him

To which Joe responded with

Then Roy agreed to rematch Tarver instead, and the rest is history

I think Joe was scheduled to fight Gonzalez for his WBO LHW title, and then that fell through when Gonzalez lost to Erdei

It was in one of bailey's links

I see where you're coming from, I've criticised Jones' LHW reign in the past, but he recorded good wins in the division. Was never truly beaten during his peak

Why should he have moved up to 175? That meant giving up his SMW world title, in pursuit of fights that were at best distinct possibilities.

The problem is, if Joe moved up, then we'd be having this same discussion, and people would be saying Joe ran away from SMW to avoid Jeff Lacy who was knocking everyone out. It's lose lose either way really

zod's a joker! The guy has literally wasted hours and hours of his life on google reading and writing about Calzaghe, a fighter he isn't a fan of tragic!

Fair point

 

It did make sense, fighting Jones earned Joe $10m. I'm not sure how much he would have gotten to fight Tarver or Johnson, but we can agree it would have been substantially less!

I don't think he embarrassed himself, he was selling a fight. Roy and his camp were saying Roy was sharp again and fighting well. Roy was still a good fighter in 2008, a long way off his best, but still a good fighter

I think Joe relished the payday he got from Jones. Pavlik doesn't have a fanbase to compare to Roy's. He would not have gotten $10m to fight Kelly Pavlik, nobody ever has or will. Look at the interest Calzaghe-Jones generated, compared to Hopkins-Pavlik. Hopkins was far more known in the US than Calzaghe, yet people talked about Jones-Calzaghe.

ok mate we'll agree to disagree here

why would Ward be seen as the bigger threat? He's a solid, awkward fighter who works his way inside, and tries to maul opponents on the inside, but at the same time he's feather fisted.

Lacy was a KO artist, who was tearing through the division. Here's a guy who could put your lights out with one shot, being built up as the SMW Tyson

I think a Calzaghe would have figured Ward out and once he settles into the fight, and took him apart in a good fight. The Hopkins that Joe beat was better than Ward. If you look at Ward's best wins - Kessler and Froch, two guys who are flat footed and lack the athletic ability and ring IQ of a Calzaghe.

As said, we'll have to agree to disagree

I see, but in one thread I remember you stating that despite Joe being a great fighter, Jones would have never fought him in 2002 because he had no fanbase to speak of.

Dawson is good, but has no fanbase to speak of.

Yet you state Joe should have fought him. That seems unfair in the context

Bute called Ward out, and said he was willing to travel to Oakland for the fight.

After Ward beat Froch, Bute was mooted and he said Bute hasn't proved himself

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Funnily enough, after Bute-Froch was signed, sealed and delivered, Ward comes out and says that's a shame because he wanted to fight Bute himself. Which simply wasn't true.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/4/1...ted-to-fight-lucian-bute-butes-team-disagrees

Instead Ward went on to fight a drained Dawson who posed next to no threat

Whilst Bute took the risk of defending his title in his opponents back yard against Froch, a bigger risk than Ward has ever taken

Thanks mate, get back to me whenever you can

 

Thats your response? Sad. You type more words into this fourm than he does and you confronted him with aruements. Prove anything he posted was a lie? Most of his posts are just links with a little comment to make it easier for you to comprehend. You obviously have no more avenues to continue debating so with so you bottle out with that? Do yourself a favour and climb out from beneath the bottom of the barrel some day.

 

Aww looks like I touched a nerve with you the other day.

If I told Zod that night follows day, he'd look for a way to argue with me. It's a waste of time, I've posted up links previously that anyone can read. He's done the same, fair play and that's that

:hi:

 

Bailey,

Have you read Zod's links?

Frank W said "And what Joe fails to mention, is I stuck by him for years when TV companies wanted to dump him - and some did"

He also said "back then the only way I could get him on air was to piggy-back deals made for Ricky Hatton and Amir Khan."

Like I mentioned in my last post, when you're fighting Manfredo at 35, to gain U.S. exposure, you know you've made some terrible choices in your career!

You might as well end the thread now.

And you say Roy didn't want to know?

Nobody was bothered about Joe.

He only has himself to blame. The opportunities were there, but he was too reluctant to take them.


Regards, Loudon.

 

Based on what? :huh
Beating a rusty, unwell double vision suffering fighter that Calzaghe took the 0 of?
Seems your bias agenda has made you come out with more ridiculous things, though im sure you will do one of your tiered rating systems for us to have a giggle over :yep

 

He'll no... WAIT how much money are we talking here???

 

Knockout,

Don't ever worry about that mate. You can reply 2 or 3 weeks later if need be.

Haha! I'm the same, but I haven't got an iphone, so I'm always pinching my girlfriends, and her ipad too. Sometimes I come straight in the house, and just pick either one of them up straight away ha! I love this forum. Bailey's been working me hard this week though. I think I deserve to get paid for debating with him.

Yes it's a real shame that fight didn't come off. That would have been a great fight.

Again, both of those fights would have been great!

Yes, you would have to assume that Joe would have beaten the versions of Roy that they beat.

Possibly, but I definitely remember hearing it, rather than reading it. But it was a while ago.

Yes, fair enough.

I'm not sure about that. I've read Zod's links earlier, and apparently he could have been mandatory to Gonzalez, had he moved up. Did Joe contemplate doing so, while Gonzalez was preparing for Erdei? Or was he not at all interested?

That's a fair point, and we've discussed it before. But the difference is,

If he'd have moved up, as you say, it was only a possibility.

But if he didn't, he literally had no chance of getting the fight.

So he was in a dilemma, and I respect that, but just how bad did he want Roy?

I honestly believe, that had he gone up when he had the opportunity in 1999, and put in Lacy type performances, they may have been a big demand for a fight between him and Roy.

At the end of the day, a possibility is better than nothing at all. Yes he could have moved up, and impressed, and at the end, he still may not have gotten the fight. I can appreciate that.

But he killed the chance altogether by remaining at 168.

If you want something bad enough, you have to take risks.

I can understand that Joe wanted to eventually unify at 168.

But he needed to make a choice.

Go all out for Roy, or forget about him and move on. He couldn't do both.

Roy was the unified 175 champ, and he had to give up his titles to move up for Ruiz, and to try and get Mike in the ring.

After Ruiz, he had to fight an extremely motivated Tarver, to try and win them back.

But again, I respect the tough position that Joe found himself in. But I think he should have gambled. In my honest opinion, he'd have won the 175 belt at some point down the line, before he retired. I honestly think that Joe moving up and winning a 175 title, would have been a bigger achievement than unifying against Kessler.

I respect that, but as mentioned above, I'm talking about him moving up 99/2000 when he was about 28.

I love reading the debates between you two. Your relationship with him, is like mine with Bailey.

I've never met anyone more argumentative ha!

It's all good fun though!