If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Bute/Froch was made before Dawson called out Ward. Inability to take a Bute fight due to a broken hand isn't a duck. Ward taking a fight with Dawson instead of Bute is absolute bull****

 

Is Pacquiao striing for it?
Hatton didnt call Floyd out. that was the point and he made a comment about action and said he will leave it at that. I brought up the fight evebn and showed it wasnt Hatton that called out Mayweather but the commentator. That was the point. I suggest you stop jumping in between conversations when you dont know what has been said and getting involved in things you dont know.
Run along kid, before you get your usual spanking :hi:

True, with the links it shows how they avoided him until they couldnt any longer

Jones had just handled tito easily, carrying him to the end. The same Tito that many call Hopkins big win

 

Part 2.

I'm not sure how much he'd have got either.

I respect that he was trying to sell the fight, and it would have been ok, had he not dismissed him earlier on in the same year. But really, there was no going back after what he'd said in Feb/March.

Then you'd got Steve Bunce after Roy's fight with Trinidad saying "Well, Roy's got to do a lot more than that to get Joe in the ring."

Fast forward to November and he's saying the same as Joe "Roy's looking sharp, and he's back etc."

Fair enough, I know it's his job, but it was cringeworthy.

Even If Joe had've said "Roy's past his peak, but he's still very dangerous etc" That would have been ok. But he actually said in 2007 that "a fight with Roy would be pointless!" and then in 2008 he said "He'd be disappointed if Roy was to be his last fight."

When you've made comments like that, there's just no turning back.

There's nothing you could say, to undo that, apart from being brutally honest, and publicly admitting that you'd cashed out. Other than that, you'd just embarrass yourself.

I think Joe definitely embarrassed himself.

Coach Merk had to do everything he could to try and get Roy in the right mindset.

Well my opinion is, Kelly didn't have Roy's fanbase, but the PPV numbers would have been much much higher for that fight. It all depends on what Joe's percentage would have been. But I think he'd have made more from Pavlik, even if a big promoter had been involved.

I don't think that Roy's fight with Joe created huge interest. They had problems selling the tickets, and the PPV numbers were poor. Maybe old fans were sentimental towards Roy, and hoped for one last great performance?

A pavlik fight definitely would have been a better fight.

Joe didn't get any respect for beating Roy, because it'd been done 4 years earlier.

If Joe had've hammered Pavlik like Hopkins, he'd have got huge respect, and would have been better though of.

No problem.

I think just because he's a better fighter than Jeff.

It depends what you class as a threat?

There's more chance of being hurt by Jeff, because Jeff had a fantastic, dangerous hook, that Andre doesn't have.

But I'm referring to the threat of losing.

I suppose it's like Nigel Benn, and James Toney for Roy.

Nigel Benn was so dangerous!

But I think Roy would have seen James as the biggest threat, because he was the better fighter.

It's only my opinion of course, but I think Joe would have had his zero threatened much more by Andre than Jeff.

Jeff was tough, but he's not a boxer, he's a fighter. Andre's not a fighter, he's a boxer. Joe could outbox Jeff, but could he outbox Andre? Possibly?

I'm certain that Joe would have feared Andre more.

I respect your opinion though.

As above, he was a powerhouse, but he couldn't match Joe for skill, like what Andre could.

Fair enough, again I respect your opinion. Maybe we'll have a better idea, as Andre's career progresses.

No problem.

Fair point, but the circumstances are a little different.

Chad hasn't got a big fanbase, but everyone knows who he his. HBO, the casual fans etc, all know who Chad is.

Nobody in America knew much about Joe.

In 2002, nobody would have wanted to see that fight.

I think had Joe have decided to prolong his career, I think fans would have been interested in a Dawson fight.

But again, I get your point.


Thanks for taking the time to post up those links regarding Ward and Bute. I really appreciate that.

I wasn't aware of any of that.

I though it was Bute that wasn't interested. I'm surprised that Ward didn't push for the fight.

If Carl beats Bute again, where does that leave Ward?

I don't think he'd want to unify with Carl.

Surely he'd have to move up to 175?


Thanks for your great reply.

Just reply back whenever you can. There's no rush at all.


Regards, Loudon.

 

Based just on achievements, then yes.


Regards, Loudon.

 

Bailey,

Oh my word!

THE SAME TITO????

Ha!

He hadn't fought for what? Three years?

They had an agreed catchweight of 170 pounds, and Tito couldn't even make it. He was 172.

How can I debate with you, when you're being ridiculous?


Regards, Loudon.

 

Pacquiao doesn't call anybody out. Arum is in control of him. He doesn't need to go after big fights. Your comparisons are useless. If Hatton didn't want a fight with Mayweather after he beat Castillo, then how the hell did he end up in the ring with him 6 months later?
You're arguments for everything are driven by what you want to believe. You've been on the receiving end of a factual, historical beatdown for days.

 

Pacquiao doesn't call anybody out. Arum is in control of him. He doesn't need to go after big fights. Your comparisons are useless. If Hatton didn't want a fight with Mayweather after he beat Castillo, then how the hell did he end up in the ring with him 6 months later?
You're arguments for everything are driven by what you want to believe. You've been on the receiving end of a factual, historical beatdown for days.

 

Joe was WELL past his prime when he fought Hopkins

 

Bailey,

He was 9 weeks from being 40. The age isn't the issue anyway. It was nothing to do with being adjusted back to the weight. He suffered back to back knockouts 4 years before he fought Joe.

You're trying to argue, when Joe himself doesn't rate the win!

The Green glove debate, also wasn't the issue.

The issue was, Roy didn't see the initial right hand from Green, which wasn't even fast. His reflexes were gone.

Lacy was a washed up fighter.

Sheika was never elite.

I ducked the question to avoid an other argument. But there's no need to argue on this topic anyway. Go and read my previous posts. I've agreed with you.

Fair enough, we'll leave it there.

Right. Let's leave it then.

More than the 50K in your example.

Once again, you're not allowing for circumstances.

 

Im sure that this has been covered elsewhere in this thread, but I seriously doubt that Joe could beat Ward at his his very best. Why the hell would he want to come out and be humiliated by him now? Doesnt make any sense. He played it perfectly. Built up his record. Gained credibility by beating two top notch Europeans at the time. Took a chance and beat a highly over-rated Jeff Lacy in impressive fashion. By this time, Roy was older and had demonstrated diminishing skills, so you beat him up and retire. Not as good of a resume once you really did into it as Carl Froch's, forget Andre Ward.

 

Bailey,

Part 2.

Pathetic?

Roy acknowledged that Joe had wanted to fight him for a while. That's all!

That does not support Joe's claims, that he chased Roy for 6 years!

Around and around we go.

Roy didn't agree to fight him at that specific time, because he had better offers.

But if Joe had've took more risks, and was a name, then Roy might have WANTED the fight.

Do you not think Roy was taking a risk going up to heavy?

Did he have the same attitude as Joe?

Did he say to his team "If I'm absolutely guaranteed a huge money fight against Mike, I'll give up all of my 175 titles, but if I'm not, I wont!"?

Did that happen?

Roy won his first belt at 175 in 96. He was a proud unified champion!

What did he do?

He gave up all of his belts.

He beat Ruiz, and was desperate for a fight with Mike.

He didn't get it!

He'd given up his belts for Mike, and he didn't get his shot.

He then had to come back and fight Tarver, who he hated, for his belts back.

Joe played it safe!

Nothing in life is guaranteed. There were other ways of getting Roy, such as targetting DM. But he wasn't interested. If HBO offered DM $5M, they could have offered it to other fighters who were in DM's position.

Hop priced himself out, which you agree with.

DM wouldn't go to America.

Ok I'll rephrase the question. Do you think Roy would have given any SERIOUS THOUGHT to Joe?

He was just a possibility, and nothing more.

NOTHING IS 100% DEFINITE!

No, but Barry was right, and Joe himself agreed with Barry's opinion.

Dear God, how many more times?

All of Roy's lesser opponents fought at 175 pounds.

Joe fought at 168 pounds.

The Fraziers, and Woods etc were mandatories. Nobody cared about them, but they moved up the rankings and got their shot.

Joe was never in the position that they were in.

At that specific point in 1998, Roy was looking to fight a southpaw. Del Valle and Reggie were southpaws. Otis got the call, and was happy with his pay. He took the opportunity. Zod says it was for around $300,000 Not a lot of money, but Otis got his opportunity to fight the best fighter in the world live on HBO.

At that point, Joe had only just beaten Eubank.

Grant was happy to fight for peanuts, in America, at Roy's weight.

Before you say, so was Joe.

If he'd have been that willing, he'd have done it before their negotiations in 2002.

Is that all he'd done in his career? Nothing else?

You think that DM was making bigger money in Germany, than what he would have done against Roy, to unify the entire division?

Roy wouldn't go to Germany, and why should he have?

Germany was notorious for disgraceful judging.

He had the IBF, WBA, and the WBC belts around his waist. He was the unified champ!

Why should the worlds best fighter who had the 3 main belts, have to travel to Germany in 2001?

Never going to happen!

It's been explained!!

Joe's dilemma was,

Give up his belt for a potential fight with Roy, THAT MAY NOT COME OFF.

Or,

Keep defending his belt for good money at home.


He was in the exact same position that Roy found himself in.

Joe wouldn't take the gamble!

Nobody is guaranteed anything.

You weigh up the situation, and then make your decision.

That's life!

Seriously, how old are you?

Have you had much life experience?

Roy used to proudly walk around with his seven 175 belts! He gave them up to go for his dream fight.

He didn't get it!

As I keep saying, if he'd have gone to the U.S. made a name for himself etc, Roy, HBO and the American PPV audience MAY HAVE WANTED A JOE CALZAGHE FIGHT.

NO! HOWEVER, The organisations that Roy fought on behalf of, put those fighters forward, because they were ranked as mandatory challengers in ROY'S 175 WEIGHT CLASS, THAT JOE WASN'T A PART OF!

Please let me know when this sinks in!

So in 1999, he didn't want Roy or tough fights. But 12 months later HE DID?

Jones would be found wanting against him?

Haha! Based on what??


Regards, Loudon.

 

Calzaghe must really be worshiped by British fans as much or more so than that Canadian Heavyweight they like so much to elicit this kind of reaction when his name is brought up. WOW!

 

Hi mate, welcome to the forum.

We're not really saying Joe ducked anybody. We're saying that he didn't really chase the likes of Roy, like he claims.

An earlier fight with Roy, wasn't viable at all.

Bailey is trying to convince everyone on here, that Joe really wanted the fight, but couldn't get it. It's bull****!


Regards, Loudon.