If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Personally, I think if it was possible at all for the fight to be made between 2000 and 2003 then Calzaghe would have taken it, but it wasn't possible.

Jones wasn't interested in Calzaghe, Calzaghe wasn't a big enough name to force Jones to fight and Calzaghe couldn't bring in the money that would justify making the fight. Instead Jones could achieve more and make more against Light Heavyweights in the US and moving up to beat Ruiz.

Calzaghe, meanwhile, was comfortable in his WBO bracket making money off of fighting whoever the WBO put in front of him. He'd never turn down a fight against a top teir fighter but he wouldn't go out of his way to make one either. He wanted Ottke but not badly enough to chase him - he beat the guys Ottke beat more convincingly but that was about it - he wanted Hopkins and Jones but was perfectly content to let them pass him up for more lucrative fights in the States.

I think that for the majority of his career Calzaghe was only in boxing for the money and didn't really care about his legacy but as he started to get old and his skill began to dwindle he starting thinking of his legacy, which is why he went that extra mile to go to the states to fight Hopkins.

 

you may be right, but calzaghe still waited until hopkins was 40 and lost his grip at MW before fighting him

ward is making all the right moves

 

...which is why i didnt dispute your point that calzaghe's win over hopkins is a better win than any one of ward's

that still doesnt change the fact that calzaghe did a lot of calling out with jones and hopkins, but waited until both were in their 40's and dethroned before fighting them

 

Thanks, sorry if this post is terrible, I'm currently nursing a terrible hangover Got in at 5am this morning, and can't get back to sleep!

iphones are quality, especially compared to the old nokia I had before it! This forum can be hilarious, I wonder where MetalMandible went, he was a great poster, his threads were hilarious.

ha! I enjoy reading your debates, you two are like Morales-Barrera!

Yeah I think Joe would beat any version of Jones post Ruiz. I think if they fought between 2001-2003, whilst Roy was still elite, he wasn't quite as dynamic as he once was, that would have been a close fight. But a 1994 Roy Jones is simply too sharp, and too good for any SMW.

ahh fair enough, I'll take your word for it. Joe was wrong to dismiss Tarver in 2004, as he was clearly one of the best fighters in the world at that time.

Yeah that's true, Joe was promised a fight with Gonzalez on the basis that he beat Mkertchyan, and it was scheduled in Cardiff and everything, then Gonzalez lost to Erdei and that ruined everything.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3383051.stm[/url]

I agree, by staying at SMW he didn't put himself in the mix and can only have himself to blame.

Yeah I can agree with that. Joe was an elite fighter, and I think he would have been a hit in the States if he went over earlier. I think if Joe was going to fight Roy, he would have wanted it on his terms, and when Roy was the biggest draw in the sport, the fight was always going to be on Roy's terms. Hence like you say, if Joe wasn't willing to make those concessions, he can't have wanted it that bad.

Yeah it's a laugh I'm going to go back on my word and reply to his posts in a bit to keep the fun going

 

MAJR,

Hi, great post!

I agree with everything you've said.

You say, he'd never turn down a top tier fighter, but he wouldn't go out of his way to make one either.

Also, he wanted Jones, but was perfectly content to less them pass up for more lucrative fights in the States.

That's correct.

This is my whole argument.

If the fights were there for guaranteed money, he probably would have taken them, but if they weren't he was content doing what he was doing.

He did not go out of his way, to chase Roy Jones.

Joe saying that he chased Roy for 6 years, is complete and utter nonsense.


Regards, Loudon.

 

600 posts for someone to say that.

Jesus christ guys.

 

I didn't realise Roy had trouble getting motivated for the Calzaghe fight.

I appreciate that Joe hugely contradicted himself trying to make out that Roy was a threat by that stage. I don't think he really believed any of it. I bet Joe could hardly believe his luck, he got paid $10m to fight a Roy Jones who posed little threat. I didn't bother to stay up and watch that fight, I just caught the replay on Setanta in the morning. It was actually a great display by Joe, I think he would have beaten any LHW in the world at that time on that particular night.


Steve Bunce just tows the line I'm sure in a few years time he'll be telling us about how George Groves is the best SMW ever, would have beaten Benn, Eubank, Calzaghe etc. :nut

Yeah Pavlik would have been a much better fight

But I don't think it would have drawn in similar PPV numbers. I don't think Joe would have gotten the same money. I remember them saying the PPV numbers weren't great because of the economic climate back at that time, it was bang in the middle of the recession.

I think Hopkins-Pavlik did even worse, and Bernard had a bigger US fanbase than Joe.

Sorry if I wasn't clear mate, Andre Ward is easily better than Lacy no doubt

My point was about perceived threats, and Lacy was perceived as a huge threat. He was bombing guys out. One thing I hate in boxing is the revisionism, people say the Lacy win wasn't much because of what he did after, but you have to look at where the fighters were going into the fight, and Lacy was the next big thing.

Ward though is the much better boxer, but lacks the punch. I don't think he has the same fear factor Lacy had. It's all hypothetical, but Joe had dealt with spoilers before, and he fought the ultimate spoiler in Hopkins and won.

I respect your opinion though

- Joe Calzaghe from the Jeff Lacy fight v Andre Ward from the Chad Dawson fight

If you had to, who would you put your money on?

I'll go with Calzaghe in a 116-112, or 115-113 type decision.

I agree that Dawson would have been the better, more interesting fight. But I disagree when you say in 2002 nobody wanted Jones-Calzaghe, there was demand and even Roy spoke about it after the Clinton Woods fight. I understand the reasoning that Joe didn't bring enough to the table, and it's similar with Dawson. He's the legit LHW champ, yet for his biggest fight he had to come all the way down to SMW, and travel into his opponents backyard. Dawson is a good fighter, but what did he bring to the table?

No worries, after Ward won the Super 6, the fight everyone wanted was against Bute.

Ward quickly dismissed Bute and said he has nothing to prove, and that he was taking a long lay off. Basically he didn't want to fight Bute. Which is fair enough, Ward has been on a tough run.

Then, bizarrely after Bute-Froch is signed and announced, Ward comes out and says oh that's a shame, I wanted to fight Bute.

That was a complete lie, he had his chance, Bute said he'd fight him in NYC, Vegas or Oakland and Ward ignored it, then made that comment months later.

I think a rematch with Froch is high risk, low reward. I think Carl gave him a tough fight first time around, but Ward has nothing to prove by beating him again.

I read that Magee-Kessler is a box off to become Ward's mandatory, but surely no-one wants to see Ward-Kessler 2? I think Ward should stay busy and active, not fighting once a year like he's Floyd Mayweather, staying active is how you build a fanbase. Then the big fights will come up. I'd still like to see Ward-Bute, I know Froch thrashed Bute and Ward beat Froch, but styles make fights.

No worries pal, get back to me when you can and have a good weekend

 

Zod, even though it's a waste of time, I'll go back on what I said before and respond to you. Even though we disagree on just about everything! I admire your persistence!

Calzaghe cleared out the division, and was moving up to fight Hopkins. Hopkins or Bute, you tell me what was the better fight and better win for Joe at that time?

Bute made no effort to call out or make a fight with Calzaghe. Remember, Bute steered clear of the super 6 tournament, what makes you think he would have fought Calzaghe in 2007?

Please be serious

Joe was absolutely right, nobody was calling for that fight in 2007!

As said before, please be serious

Source?

I only know what ****** said about Beyer's terms, ****** never mentioned the details of his own terms.[/quote]


I don't know what ******'s terms were

Now you're contradicting yourself

You said Joe purposely avoided Beyer, if so, why was his team entering into negotiations with him!?


Anyway

Are you still bringing up Bute?! This is why it's such a chore to respond to your posts, I know you're not being serious.

Sheika won a box off against Glen Johnson

Salem was a poor opponent, there's nothing more to add on that. But Joe fought Salem in 2004, after Vanderpool lost to Lacy. The Dawson fight wasn't viable until like 2007-2008, so Salem isn't really relevant here.


Once again, if Vanderpool had the IBF title instead of Lacy, and brought something to the table, then you'd have a strong argument, but we know that didn't happen

 

Right, if Tarver wouldn't fight on showtime, then what can Joe do??

Not sure what this has to do with anything

And you'd still be on here shooting down Joe for fighting Tarver after he'd been dethroned by Hopkins!

We know the time frame, and Tarver's demands of $6m to face Lacy in 2005. Calzaghe-Tarver wasn't really viable until 2008, and Tarver wasn't up to much at that point. On the other hand, Joe made $10m for fighting Jones, much more money than he would have made fighting Tarver

 

When? Which version?

A young in shape Toney, was an awesome fighter!

 

ye$$$$$$$

 

Not at the age of 40, c'mon son.

 

Ward would beat him wide UD, which he wouldn't really get credit for.