If you're an Ali fan this clip might make you angry

Ali constantly referred to Frazier as a gorilla. . . .

 

Ironically it's those that don't like Ali that seem to get angry in this thread...

 

I'm sure he'd refer to Valuev as a gorilla too.

You think Ali was racist against black people? It's fun to be a contrarian, as long as you don't drown in delusion.

 

Things have to be taken into context. Ali had some extreme views at certain periods of his youth, which I think had more to do with exercising his freedom than it did with hate.

Ali challenged the social norm that being white meant that you were better. Some of his words are looked at today as insensitive, but at the time he was inspiring people to be independent, thoughtful, and free from the dogma of a still racist society.


Joe Louis was constantly at risk of saying the wrong thing. Being a black heavyweight champion was a fragile thing. Ali spearheaded a completely new mindset.

 

Also, you have to weigh a few tongue in cheek comments to decades of humanitarian work, and a cultural enlightenment.

Sorry Joe Frazier got his feelings hurt, but Ali used all that as a platform to help people in need.

Foreman could be bitter if he wanted, but he's smart. He realizes why Ali did what he did. And instead of dwelling on it, he retook the heavyweight belt, and sold millions of product as a businessman.

 

Everyone here has their own opinion on Ali, I guess, because he's the kind of personality that the more you know about him the more complex and contradictory he appears.
Most of the stuff Ali said wasn't too bad to me. Even the NOI ethos isn't so bad, in my opinion. It's understandable. It's never really been about hate, at least not in those days. The message had to be extreme and strong because black people were so brainwashed into believing that they were inferior.

A few things to do with the separation of the races that Ali spouted were certainly offensive, from a reasonable standpoint. Like when he ridiculed the appearance of mixed-race offspring as an argument against inter-racial marriage. To me, that's a moronic argument, and insulting to humanity in general, as is "black birds fly with black birds. Blue birds fly with blue birds." as a argument why whites and blacks shouldn't mix. Plain stupidity, and yes, racism.

Truthfully, Ali was a LOYAL follower of what Elijah Muhammad preached, and knew better than to deviate from that when challenged on it. For better or for worse, he remained loyal.
Interestingly, he changed his tune, perhaps overnight, around 1976, after Elijah died, following Elijah's son's own example and espousing an increasingly orthodox muslim position and discarding black separatism.

Some people will sugar coat what Ali stood for, others will over emphasise the negative aspects. It's a matter of perspective I guess.

Whatever he was, he was a one-off. There won't be another like him. Today's plastic world of celebrity clones wouldn't even allow for such a man, even if one were to come around again.

 

I think we're all trying to say the same thing here but going round the houses in saying it. Let's stop beating about the bush. Ali was gorgeous. Extremely handsome. Beautiful.

There. I said it.

 

:good

 

I think you're more funny when you're funny.

 

:good

 

VERY WELL PUT.

Some in this forum are unable to tolerate the shades of gray required to get a complete adult picture.
Ali was not a saint. He would admit that much.
He may well be the greatest heavyweight of all time.
He grew over time and has often used his celebrity to make the world better.
But it is naive and/or disingenuous to acknowledge what he did to Joe Frazier was wrong and should not be justified.

 

Ali had good qualities as a person that often excuse and over shadow a lot of the less attractive elements to his personality.

Does it make it right? I think the world needed more actual freedom at that time. Ali was able to demonstrate a freedom to be who he wanted to be. on the whole being able to be himself was a lot more acceptable than conforming to be what was expected of him. Yes he got carried away with himself, but at that time the world needed more people getting carried away with themselves. Perhaps it's tipped too far now but it was needed then.

The things he said to Frazier did cross a line but he knew he could get away with it. So he did it. He was pushing boundaries, he was spiteful and if it did or did not wash Ali apologised after.

Legends of music promoted the worlds drug problem and did far less good than Ali.

 

Yep. Those fine shades of grey of Ali being an ******* in general and a super, super meanie to Frazier in particular.