If you've never seen someone fight,

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DrederickTatum, Mar 28, 2020.


As titled

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    That's the key argument in favour of rating him as highly as he often is and it's a good one, I admit.
     
  2. DrederickTatum

    DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

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    Obviously I know the guy had to have been an animal, I just can't get around the fact that, any opinion ANYONE has on that fighter is, at best, second-hand.

    So it's hard for me to give any merit to people spouting how great he was, based off of record alone, in an era notorious for fight fixes.

    Quite frankly, I don't wanna hear people's opinions on fighters that we have no footage for, unless you have citations from 3 different reporters who witnessed it first hand, because you, me or any other person on this forum really knows **** about them.

    Sorry if I come off rude, it's just what I think when people tell me how good a turn of the century boxer was.
     
  3. DrederickTatum

    DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

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    But Imagine a situation, where every one of those guys, looked regional level on the eye test, and then add on the fact that fight fixing was rife in the sport, and that people literally used to invent records...

    Then how much do those records really mean?
     
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  4. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    I'm sure accounts from at least 3 reporters can be found on Greb fights, so there's that.

    I think you may be making too much of some playful sparring with an old man.

    How about turning your attention to what happened in the fights with fighters we do have footage of?

    You cant deny that. And the results of those fights.

    I think anyone here shares your frustration with not having any footage to go on regarding greb.

    So are you to say the same about Rosenbloom? There is no available footage of him. His record is impressive. His opponents have much more available footage.
     
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  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    It's a hard one to reconcile but styles have changed throughout history. The question is whether those changes are automatically improvements?

    Look at Tony Canzoneri. The first time I saw footage of him I was shocked - "This is the great Tony Canzoneri I've read so much about? He has his hands by his side, he looks like he's hanging his chin out...". But then watch his fight with Kid Chocolate. Kid Chocolate's style is one most of us would recognize as much closer to modern styles than Canzoneri's and yet there is Canzoneri outboxing him (in an excellent fight, by the way).

    Or put another way, watch Adrien Broner and Floyd Mayweather and Broner's style is a carbon copy of Floyd's but only one is an ATG who could pull that style off properly.

    Before styles became more homogenized, there were plenty of different ways to fight and plenty of unorthodox styles. It's highly likely that Greb's was one of them. So it's quite possible that a fighter could appear amateurish to a modern eye but has beaten many other great fighters whose styles were what we would perceive as more "correct".

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, by the way, just offering a perspective on it.
     
  6. DrederickTatum

    DrederickTatum We really outchere. Full Member

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    Nice take!

    I was watching Kid Chocolate footage today, and that is exactly what I thought!

    Ward looked clunky at times to me, but he made it work.

    You've genuinely swayed me a bit.
     
    Jel likes this.
  7. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    This is a great question with an easy answer as it obviously pertains to fighters like Greb .. The answer is YES, you do not need to see him fight. Why would you? What makes you an expert on what he needed to do in order to get the win. Obviously, Greb knew what he needed to do to be successful and he doesn't need an "armchair quarterback" to advice him.. It is an answer that will frustrate the modernist who just can't think outside the box.. I mean how many of us have seen JIm Brown play an entire football season, let alone an entire game .. You don't need to see him to know he was one of the best football players of all time …Plenty of people were their ringside and Greb has one of the best resumes of all time .. Figure it out ,, not to difficult here
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  8. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    He's not shadow boxing in that video. He's doing "isometric" punching drills. I'd bet my left arm on it.
     
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  9. Fury's Love Handles

    Fury's Love Handles Mrkoolkevin Full Member

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    Aren't isometric exercises usually static (like pushing against a wall)?
     
  10. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    Yes. Iso is static holding the contraction against force. No range.
     
  11. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Watch this. I think its called quasi isometrics. Basically, you go through movements slower, with tensed muscles, in order to improve muscular control and movement patterns. There are lots of different forms of isometric control, more than people think. It's very interesting.

    This content is protected
     
  12. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Exactly. Isometric is staying still.
     
  13. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Apparently I've been doing Isometrics for years with out knowing it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  14. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    A plank is a good example of an iso hold. You're using your muscles but not moving muscles through a range.
     
  15. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The only weight I've really used is a 30lb weight vest. Rest is bodyweight stuff supplimented with it. I do 2 curls with each arm as slow as I can stand to. Lots of shadowboxing. Put on a lot of muscle recently at work where I move car parts. up to 215 at 6'4".
     
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